To not pay £480 to fix dd's friend's phone

[FarangGirl]

Dd (14 yo) was with her friends and accidentally hit a friend in the arm. He had his phone in his hand and dropped it. Apparently it will cost £480 to repair!!! His parents want us to pay this. I think this is ridiculous. First, friend dropped the phoen, it wasn't like dd was using it. Second. If you're going to give your kid a stupidly expensive phoen, you should insure it and have a bullet proof cover.
Aibu?

@SamphiretheStickerist

And if it is in warranty then it won't cost anything at all.

Warranty covers manufacturing faults not accidental damage! 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

@FarangGirl

I've said pay half. Not all. Half.

She knocked it. That's her fault. Pay half.

He didnt take precautions by using a case. They pay the other half.

You keep going on about his share of the responsibility but that has nothing to do with you really. You just concern yourself with your daughter being responsible for knocking it out his hand and pay half.

It doesnt matter if it was an accident. I am raising my kids to know that even if it is an accident or a totally fluke, bad luck, convergence of events, they still need to rectify their part in things. She knocked it. You pay half.

@FarangGirl I used to work for Apple. £480 is the cost price to Apple to replace the entire handset. £120 is the price to replace the screen.
Whenever there is accidental damage to a handset, the customer is given both options - A repair or full handset replacement at cost price. They've chosen to replace the whole thing and are demanding you cover the cost! Shocking behaviour

[quote BlondeWidow]@FarangGirl I used to work for Apple. £480 is the cost price to Apple to replace the entire handset. £120 is the price to replace the screen.
Whenever there is accidental damage to a handset, the customer is given both options - A repair or full handset replacement at cost price. They've chosen to replace the whole thing and are demanding you cover the cost! Shocking behaviour [/quote]
How long ago did you work for apple?

The published official (apple) uk prices for a screen repair for a 12 range from £216 for a mini to £316 for a pro max. Its also been stated there is other damage.

@FarangGirl 18 months ago. The cost varies country to country. OP stated she was in Italy

@BlondeWidow

No, she isnt.

[quote Itsalmostanaccessory]@FarangGirl

I've said pay half. Not all. Half.

She knocked it. That's her fault. Pay half.

He didnt take precautions by using a case. They pay the other half.

You keep going on about his share of the responsibility but that has nothing to do with you really. You just concern yourself with your daughter being responsible for knocking it out his hand and pay half.

It doesnt matter if it was an accident. I am raising my kids to know that even if it is an accident or a totally fluke, bad luck, convergence of events, they still need to rectify their part in things. She knocked it. You pay half.[/quote]
But they are not asking for half. They are asking for the whole thing.
And I don't think that the price is reasonable. I'd pay half of a reasonable price given the circumstances. I certainly wouldn't demand of others to pay such prices and I wouldn't assume others could afford to pay this either. I'd be ashamed to demand such a sum from another family because I'd decided to give my child a stupidly expensive phone and not adequately protect it and insure it.

I also don't think DD bears half the responsibility, some, but not half. I always said I'd contribute. But not 240 pounds. Based on the majority of responses on this thread, I think my initial approach is actually both generous and reaosnable.

Anyway, DD has not part in this at the point. She has no ability to rectify things since the phone is so ridiculously expensive there's no educational component to it for her. It could be 240 pounds, 500 pounds or 1,000 pounds - it's all out of reach. Unless she pays in installments and has no pocket money for close to a year since she's 14 and has 10 pounds a week in pokcet money. I am not responsible for her accidents, she is. If they want to sue her, good luck to them. I'll give something as I'm a decent person. But not that stupid amount.

am raising my kids to know that even if it is an accident or a totally fluke, bad luck, convergence of events, they still need to rectify their part in things.

That ridiculous. So if you tripped over something that someone had left on the floor and ended up knocking someone's phone and breaking it, you would pay for it? You tripped. It's not your fault. Or if someone bumped into you and caused you to bump into someone else who dropped something, you would take responsibility even though you have 0 need to because you did nothing wrong.

If someone offered to pay to fix my item because they tripped and fell into me, I would decline and think they were a bit weird and martyr-like.

I'd be ashamed to demand such a sum from another family because I'd decided to give my child a stupidly expensive phone and not adequately protect it and insure it.

As would I.

So again, you'd pay half if it was cheaper because you do actually believe that she caused tha accident. You're just refusing to because it is expensive.

That's life. If you dont look where you're going/where you're aiming your arms as you move around then you might hit something or something and you might break something. That thing might be expensive. That doesnt make it any less your fault.

Remember, mumsnet is a place where no one answers their door, they dont go a walk in a local woodland because it must be full of men waiting to attack them, they dont even have the phone number of their husband's parents because why would they ever need to speak to them, going no contact with family and leaving the bastard and just standard responses to very minor issues.

This is an echo chamber of not normal and not reasonable.

Your daughter turned into someone without looking at what she was doing and knocked their phone to the ground. You need to take responsibility and pay half. She'll have to learn by sacrificing her pocket money. Breaking an expensive thing just means it will take longer for her to pay it back.

@SnowFlo

Both of the situation you've used to make your stupid point have an external factor pushing you into something. That is not what happened here.

The girl simply turned around without paying attention to her surroundings. She caused the accident. She didnt trip. No one pushed her. She caused the accident by not paying attention to her surrounds and adjusting her movements accordingly.

This is what I mean about mumsent being really bloody stupid sometimes. To try and back up your opinion, you make up entirely different circumstances and then say "see, what should someone pay if they wouldnt pay during one of these made up, totally different circumstances."

@Itsalmostanaccessory

I really cant believe this.

It doesnt matter if it wasnt on purpose.

It doesnt matter if you think she was behaving reasonably.

She still managed to hit him. She caused his phone to break.

Do people just no longer take their share if responsibility? Thus is ridiculous. It doesnt matter if I was an accident. It is still her fault.

@FarangGirl
You want to blame the boy for not having a case, fine. But you also need to blame your daughter for knocking into him. It doesnt matter if it was an accident. It is still her fault.

Stop being such a snowflake who cant take any responsibility and pay half. You're saying youd have paid if it was cheaper so you need to pay even though it's is expensive. It cant be her fault if it was cheaper but not her fault because it is expensive. Pay half.

Is calling someone a snowflake a personal attack?

@Itsalmostanaccessory

Well, I disagree. The paying half of a reasonable price was a kind gesture to keep the peace, not an admission of the half the responsibility.

You choose to walk around with a stupidly expensive phone in your hand, while walking closely next to someone, you don't bother to protect it or insure it and you don't hold it securely. You only want to get it repaired at the super expensive Apple store. Well, that's life. Take responsibility for your own choices and decisions.

Also, you can get phones fixed much more cheaply than at the Apple store. I wouldn't pay those prices for myself. Not paying them for someone else.

And you're not the voice of reason calling out in the darkness in the insanity of mumsnet. I'm sure there are perfectly normal people who don't agree with you. As the saying goes, you're not stuck in traffic, you are the traffic.

I think the OP wouldnt mind paying a lower amount as a gesture of goodwill rather than accepting responsibility.

If you choose to not have insurance and/or a protective case on an expensive and delicate piece of tech then that’s your responsibility. You can’t expect others to bear 100% of the cost when it’s accidentally broken.

In this scenario I’d offer to pay half the excess and when they say it’s not insured, then oh that’s tough luck.

[quote Itsalmostanaccessory]@SnowFlo

Both of the situation you've used to make your stupid point have an external factor pushing you into something. That is not what happened here.

The girl simply turned around without paying attention to her surroundings. She caused the accident. She didnt trip. No one pushed her. She caused the accident by not paying attention to her surrounds and adjusting her movements accordingly.

This is what I mean about mumsent being really bloody stupid sometimes. To try and back up your opinion, you make up entirely different circumstances and then say "see, what should someone pay if they wouldnt pay during one of these made up, totally different circumstances."[/quote]
if someone trips are they therefore not paying attention to their surrounds and adjusting their feet accordingly?
I mean, most accidents are due to human error! The question is whether she was behaving reasonably at the time which she was.
Equally, one could argue that her friend - who should have been paying attention to the surroundings - should have moved his arm out of her way.

This is all getting as ridiculous as the pp who suggested that my dd assaulted her friend! You do indeed get some strange folk on mumsnet!

Both of the situation you've used to make your stupid point have an external factor pushing you into something. That is not what happened here.

And yet you said this:

It doesnt matter if it was an accident. I am raising my kids to know that even if it is an accident or a totally fluke, bad luck, convergence of events,

I'm not saying the girl was pushed, I'm questioning what you said above. "Bad luck", "convergence of events", "a fluke" - being pushed by someone else or tripping comes under that category, doesn't it? It's bad luck/convergence of events.

You seem incapable of understanding that I was questioning how you are raising your kids based on what you said, I wasn't talking about the OP or her DD when I replied to. Yet I'm stupid?

Seriously?

"Oh, your husband punched you? Why didnt you pay attention and move your face out the way?"

No, OP. If someone turns and bumps into you, it is not your fault. There is no way that you can say this isnt her fault. It is an accident. It was not malicious and not on purpose. But she was being careless and moved into someone hard enough for them to drop something. It just so happens that it was an expensive item that now needs repaired like for like, not with cheaper parts. And you're going to have to hand over some money.

@SnowFlo

Convergence of events:
He was carrying his phone without a decent case.
She was moving her arms around/turning herself around without looking at what she was doing g and where she was putting her arms.

Those 2 things caused a broken phone. That's 50/50 fault in my book. If it was my kid, I would offer half. Because that's what happened - 50/50.

@Itsalmostanaccessory

Seriously?

"Oh, your husband punched you? Why didnt you pay attention and move your face out the way?"

No, OP. If someone turns and bumps into you, it is not your fault. There is no way that you can say this isnt her fault. It is an accident. It was not malicious and not on purpose. But she was being careless and moved into someone hard enough for them to drop something. It just so happens that it was an expensive item that now needs repaired like for like, not with cheaper parts. And you're going to have to hand over some money.

And you're going to have to hand over some money.

Actually, I don't have to hand over any money at all. That's my decision entirely.

@SnowFlo

I'm very sorry if you didnt understand that I was referring to bad luck or converging events only involving the people actually affected.

Someone pushing you? Not your fault at all.

You moving around without looking and bumping the only person without a case on their phone, that's bad luck and 2 separate events causing the broken phone. That's both their faults.

Ok. So tripping or being pushed by an external force does not come under your definition of a "fluke, bad luck, random convergence of events" that would mean you would pay for the broken item.

The terms were vague and could well include the above, hence why I asked how far this "accidental but you should pay" goes. When would something he accidental but your responsibility Vs accidental but not your responsibility? That was what I was getting at.

As their is no warranty on the phone as it was bought abroad (this is a real thing as I used to work for Samsung and Nokia warranty) then you do not need to fit an original part OEM as it can't affect the warranty as their isn't one.
So you (him) can get it done by a local independent shop cheaper, but it's an accidental and that's what his insurance is for.
Also ask him if he has insurance as you might take him to court for causing distress to your daughter (joke)

[quote Itsalmostanaccessory]@SnowFlo

Convergence of events:
He was carrying his phone without a decent case.
She was moving her arms around/turning herself around without looking at what she was doing g and where she was putting her arms.

Those 2 things caused a broken phone. That's 50/50 fault in my book. If it was my kid, I would offer half. Because that's what happened - 50/50.[/quote]
On that basis I would say he was carrying his phone, without a case, walking too close to someone with their back to him. That makes it 4 things, hence 25/75?