To ask as a parent what I can do to make the most out of a shit secondary school?

[kheer]

I have a Ds who will be attending the dire local comp. Its shit and I would love my child to have gone to one of the few decent secondary schools in my town but I live where I live and could never have moved to an area with better schools. It is what it is.

So I am thinking ok so what can I do to support him, to nurture him so he gets the best out of those years.

Weirdly even though I live in a very deprived area we are walking distance to a private school which I did visit for a nosy and was blown away by it. The extra curricular stuff was amazing, the trips they went on, the Duke of Edinburgh award, the sporting opportunities, volunteering etc.some stuff the state schools just didn't have. A child would not just get a good education but they'd really be a really well rounded person by the end of it. (Hopefully!).

So obviously I know I can't replicate this for my child but I'm thinking there might be some things I can do as a parent and wondered if you could provide some helpful advice for me.

Get a tutor for any weak subjects, or conversely for subjects that he really loves so that he can acheive top marks which will help if he wants to carry those on at A level/Uni.

I didn’t go to a good school, but I got top marks at GCSE/A level. I had a tutor for my 2 weakest subjects and my favourite subject.

I also saw a tutor literally once for GCSE English Literature close to my exam, I think we just sat and talked about the books and poems I had covered. It was really helpful as English lit was always a weak and it helped to organise my thoughts and give me reassurance. I got a B (all other grades were A*), but I reckon I would have got a C or D without that session. I just never GOT poetry at the time. Love it now hah.

So I think that’s an example about how you can be really strategic with the kind of support he needs.

I agree @neverbeenskiing Having been to private secondary myself I can assure you it did little to help people become 'well rounded', but emphasises the difference between 'us' and 'them'. Fortunately I was encouraged at home to think a bit more widely and come to my own conclusions. I'm also not sure that 'well rounded' is the same for everyone - at my private school it meant playing an instrument, being well travelled and doing done or ccf etc. All of which are brilliant, but there are different ways to be well rounded, a child at a local camp will likely be around people from a wider range of walks of life and have different but no less valuable experiences. Not all private schools are the same, of course, but they are in general very sheltered which is not always a good thing.

I went to a challenging secondary school. Academically I was fine as quite able to get the grades but in terms of “well rounded” stuff it was guiding/scouting that gave me those opportunities - DofE, trying out multiple adventure sports, volunteering with younger kids and international travel. Not to mention fun and friends out of school.

Army cadets and the school both do DOE here.Citizenship course is amazing open to all children at I think 15 years.Scouts,sports clubs.,swimming so he meets other children from other schools.Just hope he meets children who are similar to him.Volunteering when he is older.

But that doesn't mean they reach their potential.

Very few kids “reach their potential” at school. That’s not what it is for. As long as he leaves with an education which is good enough to get him to his next stage of life, that’s all that matters.

11:11Onlyforcake
A positive attitude goes quite far hmm the fact that your anticipating shit means you'll get shit. Not to mention instilling your child with that oh so appealling 'better than this' attitude.

Pretending a school isn't shit doesn't make it true. The OP having a positive attitude will not make the slightest difference to bad behaviour, poor teaching or crap facilities.

He'll still find decent friends at the school who suit him and they'll find a way to make the best of it

Very few kids “reach their potential” at school. That’s not what it is for. As long as he leaves with an education which is good enough to get him to his next stage of life, that’s all that matters

Yes and there are many courses that require 3 a levels to get onto. Grades like 2as and a be ( or presumably number equivalent now) ny dds school when I last checked it had an average a level grade of a D. Amd given you have ro score highly enough at gcse level to qualify entry to do a levels in schools that have average percentages-c outcomes ranging between 19 percent about 50-55. U can surely see the problem?

I agree with PP who have emphasised the impact of friends at secondary. It's not an easy once to influence either.

However, some friends are worth driving further to see at weekends than others and it's not unusual for DC to gravitate towards friends with similar interests and parents with similar values.

DS also had a ball at cadets which had been mentioned several times already.

Remember too that confidence often comes from good mental health. Your DS will enjoy school most if he is doing activities he likes and is happy with his friends.

There are a lot of schools that many of us would prefer our kids not to be in. Despite the best efforts of many superb and hardworking teachers there are lots of schools where the behaviour is awful, parents don't give a shit, managers are there for just a couple of years in order to get the next promotion out and therefore are not personally invested in the school. Facilities in some schools are terrible. The classrooms leak, the sports facilities are rubbish. There is no decent library, the IT equipment is on its last legs. Many schools struggle to attract or keep good teachers. Many, many (far too many) kids are taught by a series of supply teachers with no specialism in that subject. There is a huge problem getting Maths and Science teachers to stay in many schools.

There is no getting away from it - many children do not have the schools they deserve, and nothing will change whilst governments fail to fund, support and respect state education.

However, I do believe that a child with the right work ethic and attitude and crucially with parents on their side can achieve - despite the way the dice has landed for them. If you teach in a school with lots of behaviour issues, crap management and crappy resources you soon spot the kids who give a damn, and they are the highlight of your day. The kids who work hard, who are enthusiastic, who are polite and want to learn will get on. As a teacher I loved having those kids in my classes and did everything I could to nurture them.

Sometimes it is good to be a big fish in a small pond. Trying to put a positive slant on it - because frankly what else can you do - some parents have no choice but to have their children in a less than great school. I

The kids who work hard, who are enthusiastic, who are polite and want to learn will get on. As a teacher I loved having those kids in my classes and did everything I could to nurture them

But that time is limited if the class is disrupted. And frankly unless if its a supply teacher who the kids care even less about behaving fir than than the other teachers.

All this " they will do well if they try hard " is bull. They have to actually be being taught something.

I'd contact that private school explain yher situation and ask about bursaries, scholarships, outreach to state schools.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

An relevant article here from yesterdays times. I don't always agree with KBS's solutions, but her analysis is interesting. She argues that the reason MC children do well is because so many everyday aspects of their life are constant learning. This is alien to some of the children in her school from deprived backgrounds.

I've found that eating dinner at the table every night is a good way to keep the conversation going with DC through the teenage years.

Britain’s strictest teacher: what middle-class parents get wrong

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fbcfb68a-8e67-11ec-87eb-ee84fabc72c9?shareToken=cd7c477ee5da30182d7460943a57a257

Tutor him yesterday

Cgp books for every subject - schedule at home
No tv or phone after 7 pm
Timetable ask about each and every lesson when he returns home
Get him a decent study

Dvd and bbc for documentaries etc
Plan activities eg bird watching or cooking with tutors

My kids are in outstanding state but I do all of this plus they do piano, drama, swimming, scouts, cricket, croquet, football and Horseriding out of school etc but agree with reading and radio 4. Mine are into gardening and the week and various subscriptions we do not tend to watch much tv other than green planet or around the world on 80 days etc
Lots of nt places and castles etc

@whatwouldscullydo you really do not need to tell me about the crap that many kids and teachers have to put up with - been there, done that. But the fact of the matter is that is reality for thousands of kids and teachers. So, the OP is asking how to make the most of a bad situation - and we are all giving her really good, practical suggestions.

They will do BETTER if they try hard. Not all kids will leave school with top grades in all of their exams, but if parents do the things suggested on here they will be giving their kids the best possible chance to become enthusiastic, well rounded, confident, interesting people.

I could weep when I see the conditions in many of our state schools, but I can't change them - they are what they are. As a parent what we CAN do is try our hardest for our kids to give them the best possible life chances. It isn't fair. It isn't right. I wish all kids could go to well funded schools, staffed with fabulous teachers and with all of the best facilities, but they don't. Honestly, given the choice if my children were still of school age I would home educate and pay for tutors in the subjects I couldn't cover myself. But there are very few people who would be able to do that.

This is a really interesting and hopeful thread. Our catchment secondary school does not have a good reputation at all. We will do a placing request when DC are that age (currently P2 and pre school) for a better school but otherwise, they'll be going to the local secondary.

It worries me a lot and reading people's responses here is so reassuring. We love our house and the neighbourhood and are hugely reluctant to move. Plus the thought of moving into another area for the 'good' schools does not sit well with me, actions like that only widen the gap between the have and have nots.

I myself went to a pretty poor secondary school, in a deprived area. Nevertheless I excelled academically and went on to HE - mostly I think because my parents did everything that has been suggested here. So that's what we will do. We will also go with tutoring, clubs, DoE etc, and continuing to encourage out of school friendships. I also intend to engage with the secondary school to find out more and try and understand why they place so poorly in the League Tables.

One thing that has been echoed here us confidence. I attended a private sixth form on a scholarship and even though most of my classmates messed up with their A Levels, they have gone on to excel in their careers and I believe that is down to the sense of confidence that a private education imbues in you. I didn't have that and although I enjoy my career, I think I lack the self belief to really push myself further.

@Nailsbythesea

Tutor him yesterday

Cgp books for every subject - schedule at home
No tv or phone after 7 pm
Timetable ask about each and every lesson when he returns home
Get him a decent study

Dvd and bbc for documentaries etc
Plan activities eg bird watching or cooking with tutors

My kids are in outstanding state but I do all of this plus they do piano, drama, swimming, scouts, cricket, croquet, football and Horseriding out of school etc but agree with reading and radio 4. Mine are into gardening and the week and various subscriptions we do not tend to watch much tv other than green planet or around the world on 80 days etc
Lots of nt places and castles etc

Are your children not allowed to be teenagers?

Being a teenager is about making your own decisions (and sometimes making mistakes) and learning how to navigate the world.

There is a delicate balance between supporting academic achievement and supporting their social and emotional growth.

You do your child no favours if you prioritise the former to the detriment of the latter.

@whatwouldscullydoyou really do not need to tell me about the crap that many kids and teachers have to put up with - been there, done that. But the fact of the matter is that is reality for thousands of kids and teachers. So, the OP is asking how to make the most of a bad situation - and we are all giving her really good, practical suggestions

I'm also one of these parents though. Amd I tried most of this stuff. I did my best to go into it being all positive etc but you must surely see in the majority of cases is a waste of time.

It takes a very special kid to be able to ignore every thing And everyone around them. And to cope with spending alot of time on your own because issues within the year group means your friends have had to move class to escape the children causing them problems. And those are the ones who haven't been able to jump ship completely.

Its a fantasy really. Especially with more than one kid and a job.

I mean I did kinda used ti think that. Nut now I know it's really just something we all tell ourselves to try and make ourselves feel better. Or that we have some control over the situation.

In reality u spend alot if time trying to calm.your kid down as they are freaking out about all the tests they have to take on stuff they haven't covered yet with supply teachers who can't manage the class.

OP, my DD went to a poor Secondary Modern (yes, we do still have them here), which had a high proportion of DCs with SEN, only about 30% of pupils got 5 A-Cs (as it then was) at GCSE and the average A level grade was D-.

FWIW I would 100% echo those who have said friendship groups is the single most important factor, and you can influence this to a certain degree by encouraging friendships with DCs (and their parents) who have the same attitude as you and yours.

Also, you may well find some of the teachers are excellent and really committed to being supportive of DCs who work hard and show determination. We found many of them would willingly go the extra mile for DCs who showed a genuine interest in their subjects. Quite often, in my experience, you find some of the best teachers in poor schools because those are the ones who want to make a difference and know they can do so in that environment.

DD left that school 5 years ago, she now has 2 degrees in highly academic STEM subjects. Oh and, just as importantly, this weekend she has gone away with 7 of those schoolfriends. Don't lose heart.

I would just add to this - Kumon for maths is a miracle-worker. Start him on that this week. It's astonishing what it can do if you are dedicated to doing it daily.

And a language - find out if there is an Alliance Francaise near you and sign him up for that right away, or starting in September.

And a sport - you can "replicate" the private school experience depending on what you have available near you - rugby, rowing etc.

What's your local council gym/swimming organisation? They might have a teen membership scheme like this - www.better.org.uk/what-we-offer/activities/gyms/junior-gym

All the advice above is fantastic. Keep him busy and give him lots of quiet time and space to do homework at home. A dedicated study space with zero distractions.

Also, homeschooling doesn't have to mean you suddenly becoming an expert in everything. There are lots of online schools you could look into - look up online home school uk.

@Whatwouldscullydo if my child's friends had been moved out of the class and they had been left on their own to deal with badly behaved kids on their own then I would be in touch with the school every single day until my child was moved too. If they have done it for one child they can do it for others.

In my experience the parents who were involved, not in an aggressive way, but those who supported the PTA, came to parents evenings, made sure their child did the homework - those parents got listened to.

I'm sure you have tried to push and advocate for your child. Keep pushing is my advice. Email and phone in and ask for your child to be moved. Make an appointment with the head of year. If that goes nowhere go to the head, the governors if you have to.

What outside-schools can your child join to expand their interests and skills?
Scouts, Dof E, St John's First Aid, local Mens Shed, local sports facilities. Cycling. Cooking and catering, could link to foodbank or soup kitchen . Voluntary work (local animal charities , food bank, charity shop, hospice tearoom, gardening at local botanic or NT garden, or community garden. Craft groups? Woodwork? Reading partner for slow readers at school. Dog walker for owners in difficulties. Volunteer at local green/nature/conservation charities.

In school terms; take an active interest in his school work. Talk about what he's learning in biology or history or geography and use yjr internet /libraries to find out more (for yourself ). Read and discuss the novels, poems, authors he is reading in English. Find the film of the book, borrow it from the library and watch it together. Ask about his science projects. Make sure he has a quiet table/desk space for homework; a good desk light, bookshelf, folders and pen pots to help him organise his work and show you value it. Remember the names of his teachers and friends and what he says about them ; shows that you value these people in his life. Make his friends welcome in your home. Attend parents evenings, or any events for parents . Join the PTA. Start a PTA.
Whenever you need advice or clarification from the school, ask. When they seek contact with you, cultivate attentive co-operation.
Read letters and respond . School is his workplace and social hub; show you recognise and respect their importance.

     In ANY school, teachers pick up the home-life signals from pupils  in dozens of little ways  "parents who take an interest; supportive home". It can be the absolute basics  ;  regular attendance; arrives on time properly fed and rested;   Brings the right kit on the  right day,  does the  homework.    Most of which are evidence of how caring parents  make sure their DC gets the best out of school.

My DS was at a shit seconday school. My advice is to have a couple of extra curricular activities outside of school where other friendships can be made, it takes some of the exclusivity of school friendships away. Go to every parents evening, every meeting, make yourself known, be that parent - bad schools don't want to upset good parents. Be involved, keep a constant watch on homework, talk about lessons, foster a love of learning, if there are days out or books that can support learning do it. The crucial thing is to get through the 5 years pass Maths and English with at least 4's and get into a good sixth form. My DS got through, got to a good sixth form college where he flourished. All is not lost - but it will be down to you to step up and fill in the gaps.