Violent child

[CindyLouWho1]

My son is nearly 4. At the moment he is allowed to watch about 30 minutes of TV a day before dinner, which I think is reasonable, and all the things he watches are age-appropriate. At his nursery today they told me I need to stop him watching TV because he’s too “violent”. He doesn’t actually hurt anybody, he just pretends to be fighting imaginary bad guys, with lots of play kicking and punching. Anyway they told me it’s worrying that he likes play fighting so much and that he needs to “diversify his interests”. I said I understood and thanked them for telling me but I don’t know if I agree with what they said. I spend a lot of time with my son and I don’t think he is any more aggressive than any other child his age - he’s certainly not “violent” - and I don’t think he spends an unusual amount of time play fighting. More often than not he is busy playing with his toys, doing Play-doh, drawing or looking at his books. I really don’t think the play fighting is a big issue especially as he doesn’t hurt anyone or damage anything. However I appreciate that the nursery staff have years of knowledge and experience with small children that I don’t, so I wonder if I should take their advice on board. Thoughts?

(As this is in AIBU - to maximise the responses - I just want to say beforehand to those posters who can hardly wait to jump in and deliberately misinterpret what I’ve said so they can tell me I’m a bad mother, please remember that I’m a human being with feelings).

They have children all day everyday, if they say he's play fighting significantly more than the other children why would they lie, also you don't think it's an issue but it is, play fighting in generally not allowed in any school or nursery setting, children don't understand the boundaries, other children start to copy, somone gets accidentally hurt. Also since when is fighting a normal game to be playing at this age why would he have any real knowledge of fighting and bad guys at 4 he should be watching number blocks and Thomas what is he watching that has people fighting bad guys? Whatever it is it isn't age appropriate, nursery are correct.

Ignore them 30 mins of kids TV a day is not causing him to be violent nor is he being violent unless he is actually hitting or kicking someone rather than an imaginary bady

Where is he getting the concept of 'fighting bad guys' from? Presumably something he's watching on TV.

Is it limiting his friendships? My son's have never done play fighting, they wouldn't be drawn to a child who is.

It's probably not the 30 minute s of tv! What's he watching?

I think it’s important to remember that this

“ he’s certainly not “violent” - and I don’t think he spends an unusual amount of time play fighting. More often than not he is busy playing with his toys, doing Play-doh, drawing or looking at his books. I really don’t think the play fighting is a big issue especially as he doesn’t hurt anyone or damage anything”

Is what he is like for you at home - I imagine he must be behaving differently at nursery for them to comment? Can you suggest to them the kind of books/ other toys he likes at home so they can redirect him to them at nursery?
Play fighting in a large group setting very often ends with children getting hurt hence why it is avoided at school and perhaps also nursery as children get carried away?

Mine was the 'bad' child. She has ADHD.

Nursery knew there was something going on. She's perfect now.

Casual, causal connections between media/technology and behaviour are nearly always wrong - and there’s masses of scholarship in communication studies to show that. Take the television out of the mix for the moment as that’s an easy straw man. Also take the arbitrary 30 mins (as opposed to 25 mins or 43 mins) out of the equation. Screen time research has also progressed in strides and easy/rigid solely time-based judgments around screens are thankfully being left behind and discouraged. The real questions aren’t about “time”. They are about - content (what’s on the screen? A maths game? Zoom with grandma? Teletubbies? Inappropriate material?) - it’s about context (who’s around when he’s using screens? Do you chat about what he sees? What else does he do? What do you talk about?). It isn’t about 30 mins or 45 mins.

Once you’ve got it aside these rigid and easy scapegoating ideas people and the popular press have around the media - often driven by pop psych- Then look at nursery’s assessment and your own assessment of the situation. His overall behaviour, his contexts, his health, his social connections, physical activities etc.

The answers could lead you to seeking help in terms of maybe a behavioural diagnosis? Finding additional support? Some more rule setting? More conversations with him in a joint up approach with nursery? Changing things in his broader home environment?

I’ll start by saying that I have no knowledge at all. But I wonder what their outdoor/exercise opportunities are like? Some boys just need to be out constantly using their muscles and brains doing boy stuff. These are the boys that become farmers, engineers, inventors. In primary school (in my day) boys would wrestle constantly. There was never a shirt with a full complement of buttons. But they were all fabulous boys.

Do they have big, outdoor blocks so he can build stuff and then demolish it? A sand pit? Does it matter to them how dirty he gets? Do they recognise early signs of restlessness and get him outside?

@Onatree’s post is great. I agree with all of that.

The idea of ‘bad guys’ is a developmental thing at around this age. They don’t need to pick it up from TV - it’s about developing notions of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ and putting all of the ‘bad’ stuff conveniently into the idea of ‘bad guys’, which makes it less threatening.

If nursery feel his behaviour is inappropriate for that setting (and I think you do have to believe them if they say that’s what they’re seeing), then they have to work on putting boundaries in place, with your support and backing.

Full disclosure, though - I have a child who is actually violent at times (she is adopted and has some attachment issues), so I was expecting something much worse than play fighting from your title!

30 mins of tv is fine, what is it he watches?

Is it just that the nursery doesn’t allow play fighting? As in at all. I can see how someone could get hurt, even if unintentional.

Why did nursery mention tv? Boys do like to play fight but it might be helpful to understand where behaviour is coming from. Is it watching tv or is tv ion when he's not watching ie adult tv. Does he play computer games? Or watch videos on phone/iPad? Is it from copying other children? Telling you not to let him watch tv isn't overly helpful, I'd want a conversation with staff if your child isn't watching inappropriate stuff on tv I'd explain and ask them what they are doing to support him. Obviously if he does have access to tv which could be encouraging this behaviour then change what he watches.

This is a good article www.parents.com/kids/development/should-parents-be-concerned-about-violent-play/

I has to stop my 3yo ds from watching Tom and Jerry with his 6/7 yo sister as he became aggressive with her after watching. Both kids are mildly autistic but we didn’t know it at the time, Tom and Jerry as ‘age appropriate’. I don’t think I’d let a third dc watch it before 6/7 now to be honest.

It really, really depends on what the content it, even ‘U’ rated Tom and Jerry was not suitable in our house.

Also, nursery behaviour and home behaviour are very very different. My sons first symptoms of autism were ‘acting out’ at nursery, no problems at home. We got an early diagnosis because of the nursery. Listen to them as they won’t be seeing the same child as you do necessarily.

Is he frightening the other children with arms and legs flying everywhere? Perhaps you have to talk to him and say that stuff is only for fighting baddies and none of the children at the nursery are baddies. I mean I'm not sure you have to look for deep-seated reasons. My youngest watched a whole heap of action movies and never harassed anybody with kung fu kicks. I do think you might want to encourage an interest in martial arts where at least he will learn discipline. It is very frowned upon to ever use those skills against schoolmates and I have known many children involved in martial arts and there has never been any sign of using it on other children outside the dojo. Probably too worried about facing the sensei.

What exactly is he watching during those 30 minutes? It’s the content that matters not the duration. If he’s watching age appropriate shows then I doubt that’s the root cause of the behaviour. There’s no play fighting in the Gruffalo or Duggee or Thomas & Friends etc - but if he’s watching wrestling matches then they might have a point!

Either way, nursery are allowed to say that play fighting isn’t an appropriate behaviour for the setting - it’s typically not allowed in schools and another child could get hurt unintentionally. And in that case they have to work with you on discouraging the behaviour.

“… with lots of play kicking and punching.”

This is the sentence that stuck out at me. Maybe he’s too physical around other children. You say he doesn’t hurt anyone, but maybe the other children don’t like his actions. If he is being overly aggressive, whether it’s okay fighting or not, the nursery should put in measures to control this.

30 minutes tv isn’t a problem if it’s age appropriate.

Boys do like to play fight

That's the sort of stereotype we should be moving away from isn't it? I've been a nanny for 15 years and none of the boys I've raised have been the least interested in fighting. The only boy I worked with who consistently worked violence into his play had had some trauma in his past and was into Marvel cartoons and live action which I don't think is age appropriate (he was 6 when I was with him). I only worked with the family for a month or so so don't know how it worked out for him longer term.

Hi op my now 10 year old was a big big play fighter at 4 or 5 !. It was always consensual and he had friends who absolutely loved rough and tumble even wrestling. I saw that reception year 1 was the peak of it and he totally grew out of it. But it is a very normal and healthy part of play and child development some kids.

I know nurseries and schools can't allow it to become physical but so much play can be focused on this sort of thing I remember it being very normal. Do the nursery give him enough running around and outdoor time ?

I think you need to establish more about their concerns. Are other children unhappy? Are the nursery generally anti rough or fighting based imaginative play ? Does he scare kids ?

Some children aren't as good at learning when other children don't like how they are playing and that is a life skill.

I know a lot of young kids and this can be very normal healty play but it can also go wrong and become unhealthy if it is done to the extent that other children don't like it.

In my country there is strong "boys will be boys" attitude. Even teachers don't do much to discourage play fighting and obsession with war theme, wepons etc. It's seen as inevitable. Im not very happy about it, it's sad, that my son will not grow up like your paceful and quiet boys. But on the other hand there must be lot of isolating any active, agressive content from their lives, lot of "brainwashing" from the early age to stomp any roughness out. Not even sword fights? So OP - it is a natural intinct, even girls could be thrilled to play fights. Find a place for your son to play active games - nature maybe?

If you are confident he is not seeing anything dubious on screens then you can forget about that aspect of it. Some people always think behaviour is copied from somewhere.

Sorry OP but I don’t see why nursery would say this without cause. Clearly he’s behaving differently in school than to how he is at home. Does he have siblings to do with at home or is that why he’s spending more time doing it in school? I also agree with poster who said about moving away from stereotyping children. My son has never been into play fights, he’s a very sensitive young man and always has been. He liked gentle hands and play and still walks away every time something escalates in school at nearly 15. It’s just not him.
Watch the tv show with him and see if that’s genuinely the cause. For reference my son liked peppa pig and in the night garden at that age. Good luck.

It's likely that other children are doing the same play acting but your son is being more physical than they are.

Yes, take their advice seriously. It will get worse later on in the reception class. If your child’s behaviour is so much different from others, do yourself a favour and don’t be in denial, it doesn’t help anyone. Maybe it’s not necessarily TV, but some other influence etc. Diversifying interests is not such an evil idea

If my child came home and said another child had been fighting with them (because that's what children that age will say) I'd be insisting the nursery addressed that.

I'm sure you would too.

If your child got seriously hurt, you wouldn't say "oh it's ok they were only play fighting" you'd want to know how they were allowed to be pushed hard enough to hit their head and be knocked unconscious or whatever.

I don't think the tv is relevant - unless that's where he's told them he's seen it.