Violent child

[CindyLouWho1]

My son is nearly 4. At the moment he is allowed to watch about 30 minutes of TV a day before dinner, which I think is reasonable, and all the things he watches are age-appropriate. At his nursery today they told me I need to stop him watching TV because he’s too “violent”. He doesn’t actually hurt anybody, he just pretends to be fighting imaginary bad guys, with lots of play kicking and punching. Anyway they told me it’s worrying that he likes play fighting so much and that he needs to “diversify his interests”. I said I understood and thanked them for telling me but I don’t know if I agree with what they said. I spend a lot of time with my son and I don’t think he is any more aggressive than any other child his age - he’s certainly not “violent” - and I don’t think he spends an unusual amount of time play fighting. More often than not he is busy playing with his toys, doing Play-doh, drawing or looking at his books. I really don’t think the play fighting is a big issue especially as he doesn’t hurt anyone or damage anything. However I appreciate that the nursery staff have years of knowledge and experience with small children that I don’t, so I wonder if I should take their advice on board. Thoughts?

(As this is in AIBU - to maximise the responses - I just want to say beforehand to those posters who can hardly wait to jump in and deliberately misinterpret what I’ve said so they can tell me I’m a bad mother, please remember that I’m a human being with feelings).

I don't see much wrong with play fighting if he really isn't hurting anyone, and I think 30 mins of TV is fine at this age and less than most kids (although as others have mentioned the content is important too).

However, in general, I think it's wise to listen to what nursery have to say. They're not always right, but they do see a lot of kids and can offer a different perspective.

So in your position I wouldn't rush to make any changes, but I would keep an eye on things (especially when observing his interaction with other kids) and keep an open mind.

Personally I would do as they ask and cut out the tv for a week and ask them if they saw an improvement.

If he only watches for 30 mins a day it won't be a big inconvenience.

If he is doing less of the inappropriate behaviour at school - great, turns out they were right.

If it hasn't made a difference, as you suspect, then you have ruled out the tv and can have another frank discussion with the school about how you can work together to nip this in the bud.

Don't ignore them. They see a lot of children. If they say it's unusual, it's unusual.

We had a child at our preschool who watched the Spider-Man cartoon (so age appropriate), but at pre school he would only play a Spider-Man game. He had to put the costume on as soon as he arrived and he was constantly trying to get other children to play his game. It was really limiting his experiences, so we stopped him from dressing up in that outfit for a few days and then limited his use of it and had lots of talks about making sure others wanted to join in before deciding they needed “rescuing”.
I guess what I’m saying is that his play could very well be a problem at nursery because it’s impacting others. At home he hasn’t got the same stimulation to play that game. You need to support the nursery in talking to your child about playing around others and appropriate behaviour.

Yeah my Dd wouldn’t like that, she’d find it overwhelming and upsetting. Tbh if they have raised it I would give it some serious consideration, its clearly noteworthy otherwise they wouldn’t have said anything if it fell within the normal range of behaviour in his class. I wouldn’t blame the tv though unless he’s watching violent content.

Also if DD came home and said another child was pretending to punch and kick her I’d be straight into nursery, for small children they don’t actually have to be punched or kicked to find it distressing its the thought they may be punched or kicked. You have to consider whether his behaviour is causing distress to other children.

Btw I’m not saying he’s a bad kid or anything but he may not know how to play with other children in a way which is mutually satisfactory.

I would monitor what he is watching. It might be age appropriate but if it leads to play fighting then you need to get him to watch something else. Remind him how to play nicely

Play fighting is a nightmare, usually ends in tears as can go too far or have a misdirected kick etc. Can remember some boys in DS’s class pretending to be stuntmen and doing mock fighting in slow motion, would inevitably involve someone mistiming a punch or the other boy moving in the wrong direction, and fist hitting their face. Cue tears and accusations of bullying

It’s the tv and stuff around them. I have a 7 and 4 year old. 4 year old play fights when he watches it on tv. We have had to cut some programs (so he does it less).

Big one reads history books and re enacts scenes from wars/horrible histories… a bit harder when there is educational value. I just try to emphasise exactly how terrible it is to live through war and try to explain what it would be like for people today living in war zones.

Kids’ behaviour may be different in school with lots of other kids than at home.

What is he watching? If its cbeebies that's good. Anything else can be a poor influence.

I'm by no means an expert but I know my calm, kind son talks about fighting all the time. He never watches anything violent on TV. I spoke to his nursery as he was constantly telling me about all the fighting at nursery (with glee). They said boys fight. Sometimes thr girls get involved but not as much. They just control it to stop it getting out of hand rather than stopping. They were totally relaxed about it and seeing as my son was happy I left it. He loves soldiers and swords. Very strange as we're not that sort of family at all. We're more book readers. I certainly watch the older children in the playground and they play fight a lot.

If what you’re saying is true and your son is just the very active robust 3yr old type, tbh I would be inclined to smile and nod and perhaps look for a nursery that emphasises outdoor play more if that’s an option. Don’t entirely close your mind tp the idea that he may be presenting very differently in a different environment though.

I have come across a few nurseries lately that are really, severely intolerant of boys running around. That isn’t to entirely endorse a ‘boys will be boys’ approach, but rather to acknowledge that some 3 yr olds are not going to be capable, nor should they be, of sitting still and doing what they’re told all the time and learning letters and doing songs like nicely behaved little robots.

The British educational system is getting ever pushier and asking for nurseries to become more educational, more like schools but without schools’ awareness of all aspects of children’s needs, and in some cases it is resulting in low paid staff being asked to have degrees and debts and turn into teachers for £10 an hour. Unsurprisingly they are demotivated, stressed and fed up with large numbers of toddlers to handle.

I have seen some other nurseries able to resist such pressures. They stress outdoors and messy play more, usually in the well-off middle class areas though. The ones I’ve seen typically have older staff which may be a factor.

If its not TV....
Does he have older siblings?
Do you have dogs that 'play fight'?
Have you spoken to him about what he dies in nursery and why he does it?
Does he have "wrestling" toys/figures, Transformers etc...
Has he ever seen films that have fighting in?

They don't tend to tell you these things for no reason (nursery I mean), it's not generally in the interest of staff to dedicate the time and effort to make up things that aren't true just for... well, why would they?

So I think you have to accept that what they are saying is true. They will see loads of kids and yours is acting differently.

It won't be the TV thing. My four year old watches way way way way way more than 30 minutes a day and also watches stuff that probably is a bit too old for him (horrible histories etc) because he has an older brother. And he doesn't play fight to excess or demonstrate any violent behaviour beyond the normal rough and tumble between siblings.

Where is he getting the 'fighting the bad guys' stuff from though? If not TV then where? He won't be coming up with that on his own. It might be that he's being influenced by the other kids at nursery or something else, but I've got three kids and they definitely act differently at home than at school/nursery so I don't think the nursery is making it up just because you don't see it.

He might be more prone to fighting or aggression than other kids his age but 30 minutes of kids' TV is unlikely to be the reason. And yes he could be very well behaved at home alone with you but nursery is a completely different setting.

Is he getting plenty of outdoor time and opportunites to run off his energy? And does he get safe "rough and tumble" opportunites? Some kids like "fighting" because they want physical contact with other kids and they don't have the understanding or practice to do it more gently, especially if he's an only child. As DS's teacher once said to me - fixing me with a gimlet eye so I knew I was being told not asked! - "does he have pets?" (We couldn't manage a dog but a few months later two kittens duly appeared )

My boys loved good versus evil games at your son's age whether it was superheroes or cops and robbers. Apparently they are good for development.

We need more details about the play fighting. Is there contact or aggressive language ? 2 kids actually wrestling is different to 2 kids waving imaginary light sabers a metre apart.

My kids quickly cottoned on that nursery/school didn't like guns and stuff so they had to discreetly use fingers or sticks and chasing each other during these kind of games wouldn't attract negative attention.

If you're confident with your tv choices then stick with it because it sounds like your son has picked it up from nursery (you don't mention an older sibling)

He might benefit from one of the martial arts classes for tots.

I'd consider whether his present nursery is the right place for him.

Yes, he might play too roughly and need guidance in playing gently with others, but that's bread and butter stuff for nurseries. The staff should be able to deal with it. Most children that age understand that nursery has certain rules which they have to follow, even if they need a reminder occasionally.

As for the 'baddies' thing, the nursery staff at my DS's nursery frequently played baddy-type games in the garden where the kids would have to rescue their friends from the 'scary monster' (the teacher). The kids loved it (both boys and girls)! There was the occasional push or knock, and the staff just reminded the children to look where they were going and be gentle with their friends. Not a big deal surely .

You need to listen to them as they are responsible for your child and the others. I'd do what was suggested upthread and cut out tv for a week or so (tell them that's what you're going to do) and ask them if there's an improvement - this way they'll know you're working with them. It may be that he's just full of beans and could do with some more energetic outside stuff while he's there? My grandson at that age was like a duracell bunny every day until he'd burnt off some energy and then he discovered rugby!

Interesting that a couple of pp think it might not be the right nursery for him. My DS5 loves play fighting. So do his friends. Sometimes I really have to hold myself back not to get involved when they go for each other in what look like incredibly violent ways, but they always come up laughing their heads off.

He attends an outdoor nursery and I don't think the staff ever stop them from fighting each other. Obviously they talk a lot about consent, checking in with the other child, etc. And obviously they'd get involved if a child was being brought into it unwillingly.

I have to say that none of this would have flown at DD's (school, quite strict) nursery. It was the right setting for her but DS would not have enjoyed it, which is why we looked elsewhere for him.

Forgot to say! Your DS sounds lovely and really normal from what I've seen of boys (and some girls, but, honestly, fewer) that age.

My three year old has started doing this. “Smack mummy in the face” “punch punch punch” and then pretends punching. I don’t really know what your meant to do I’ve said you can’t do that it’s unkind we don’t hit etc. He just laughs. So I’m just completely ignoring it now, I’m really hoping he doesn’t do it at nursery. The thing is they could learn it anywhere ? Off an older child ? Or even another child at nursery ? It’s not your fault ignore the nursery that’s less tv than my son watches.

@Antsgomarching

It’s a small child what do you expect the mum and nursery to do kick him out of nursery? Wait till yours gets to school age it will be worse there..the things children come out with and copy.

Is he actually hitting the kids or just flailing his arms and legs around?

My son was doing karate at age 4 -shrug-

My son wasn’t a rough and tumble play fighter. But one of his friends brothers is utterly obsessed with super hero’s and fighting baddies. He dresses as a super hero, plans out home alone style traps, and generally plays these out with little figures he has.

To me that’s as normal as mine who had no interest.