Page 28 | Why do you benefit bash?

Frequency · 16/02/2022 01:00

Unemployment benefits need to rise. Top up benefits for people working part-time also need to exist and need to come close to matching a fulltime livable wage until enough employment opportunities and affordable childcare exists for no-one to have to work part-time.

People working full time for profitable organisations should not need top-up benefits. I accept that they do, through no fault of their own, and that the top up benefits are not high enough to afford a decent standard of living. However those top up benefits are propping up massive, multi national companies like Amazon, Tesco, Starbucks etc and that is wrong. Those companies should be forced to pay an actual living wage.

Meh2020 · 16/02/2022 01:17

@greyblanket76

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

Is your working class mum encouraging you to stay at on benefits for a year or two to improve your quality of life?

Im a single parent and also come from a working class family.

Yes I suppose at times life has been a bit of struggle with childcare, commuting, general tiredness of doing all the parenting and having very little left over each month but I didn’t realise that we could choose not to work to improve the quality of our lives; my understanding is that anyone who can work needs to be actively looking for work to receive allowances.

Being a stay at home mum because it’s a better quality of life isn’t a payment option given DWP/HMRC as far as I am aware but I could be wrong?

LemonSwan · 16/02/2022 01:23

@Sarahcoggles

I don’t blame individuals for taking whatever path is most financially advantageous to them. However I get frustrated at a system which sometimes makes it more financially rewarding to not work than to work. That makes no sense. Benefits should be claimed out of necessity, not out of choice.

Yes this, its nothing personal. Its a shitty system.

They need to make better work related credits - specifically for those in the early child care years to ensure its always better in work for women.

LemonSwan · 16/02/2022 01:27

I didn’t realise that we could choose not to work to improve the quality of our lives; my understanding is that anyone who can work needs to be actively looking for work to receive allowances.

I covered some HR during the early pandemic to help out and saw some of the applications that came in for job vacancies. Half were barely filled out and when you rung those who had filled the form correctly half would never pick up / get back to you after numerous messages, and some even hung up because they didnt want to be invited for an interview.

I think its easy to fool the system.

eekbumbler · 16/02/2022 01:31

To have one child at the age of 21 was silly.

To have a second at the age of 33 was just stupid.

Sorry, got lost there musing on my own. Single parent, got fucked over by long term partner who disappeared before baby was even born.

Universal Credit is a hoot.

Disneydatknee88 · 16/02/2022 01:39

I don't generally benefit bash. I was on benefits for a short while when I was a single mum and it was the pits honestly. I worked part time and wasn't bringing in a lot of money. I've always worked though. Only used it to top up my income at the time and it paid for childcare. Now I work fulltime and don't qualify for anything. What I don't agree with is the people that have never worked and rely on benefits for everything. It's more of an issue with the system though. I've got a friend that did work for years but was always off sick in every job he was ever in. He's now fully reliant on benefits for fibro as is his new gf with the same condition and they can get full benefits and claim carers allowance to be each others carers and are absolutely raking it in with PIP too. It's mental.

Willyoujustbequiet · 16/02/2022 01:45

I also think you're on a wind up as there was simply no need to outline all the amounts with such accuracy.

Meh2020 · 16/02/2022 01:48

Hello OP,

I’ve now read more of the thread. It’s all absolutely depressing really and completely because of the system we live in.

I think life is hard for many people and the struggle is real whether working or not, UC or not and just scraping by.

There is also something divisive about our current government and some of the press and it all feeds into how are society is working (or not in my opinion).

As above I’m also working class but quite a different experience to yours but do come from SW London. I think the final straw for me is the UC paying your rent (so someone’s investment property is being publicly funded!)

Good luck with the future - the only thing I would add is that evidence does suggest being in work if good for our well-being (and gives us a break from the kids!)

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 16/02/2022 02:59

I'm neither rich and elite or a nodding dog.

Hmm, based on the rest of your post I'd say you're firmly in the nodding dog section.

Just very experienced within the benefits sector. I've seen cases which almost broke me emotionally I've also dealt with cases (a large number) that make my blood boil.

Even a "large number" of blood boiling piss taking benefit claims pails in comparison to the money hoarded, legally and illegally, by the wealthiest in society.

Media fans the flames with the system, but like everything it has 2 sides. Unless you work in the sector then you can only judge by what's reported.

You don't have to work in the sector to realise one side is not the big issue. Benefit fraud costs the tax payer around £2-2.5 billion a year. Uncollected tax, either from not declaring earnings, avoiding tax through loopholes, legal offshoring, or just plain old evasion costs around £36 billion (possibly as much as £120 billion depending on who's research you go with - £36b is HMRC's eatimate). Legal challenges on the interpretation of tax laws and legal tax avoidance schemes (both almost exclusively used by the rich as you need expensive legal advice to get away with both) cost us around £7.7b a year. Illegal evasion costs another £5.2b. Yet it's benefit fraud that's policed/investigated/tackled with the most gusto for some reason.

I don't think anyone would deny vulnerable, medically unfit or genuine people in need benefits. The issue is those (and there are MANY) who use and abuse the system, make it a lifestyle.

Nope, the issue is the elite hoard wealth at the expense of everyone else. The wealthiest 10% in the UK have more wealth than the remaining 90%. The top 1% have enough money to eliminate the national debt with a trillion pound or so left over. That's just personal wealth, corporate wealth is in a whole other league again but that's a different matter.

It's not black & white which many on Mumsnet seem to think it is judging by the replies on here.

It pretty much is black and white, except those at the top and their puppets keep trying to make things grey. Redistribute wealth more equally and suddenly the whole benefits issue goes away.

jimmyjammy001 · 16/02/2022 03:07

@mumof2exhausted

I think the system is ridiculous- as you have said you get £1000 more a month by not working us obviously bonkers.

And as for bashing you … I didn’t have children until I was married, had a house and savings. There seem to be so many younger people who jump into having kids then expect the state to pay got it. The fact you use the phrase “I’m entitled to…” I grew up in a working class family and we didn’t go without but it was very tight. My parents would have never applied for benefits as they thought they were for those in a worse situation. Some young people literally expect handouts as soon as they hit 18

This exactly, I think people get annoyed because some have children with out a financial plan in place first, people seem to think that just because that they are working in a job full time it provides enough to start a family, when quite often it doesn't.

Just some basic financial safe guarding measures BEFORE having children should the worse happen (splitting up) things like getting both your careers sorted out beforehand so both got enough to raise children on, (even if a partner leaves you can still provide as you will have built up savings beforehand) life and critical illness insurance cover so should something bad happen in life to a partner you can still live comfortably after, getting married for financial protection so that children stay in the marital home if a divorce happens, buying a suitable house before hand (yes I know houses are expensive but if you want some security need to save up before hand) and building up some good equity in it so you have some financial security and not having to rent with no control over rent costs or when you might be evicted for no reason, build up emergency savings and savings pot to supplement income throughout childcare years in case of an emergency.

These are basic measures that alot don't seem to do and then start complaining that it's not fair and they can't afford anything, but unfortunately they need to take some self responsibility for their life decision to have children. I get that you can't predict if a partner will just get up and leave overnight, but if they do just with some basic measures you won't be thrown onto the breadline needing benefits in order to survive.

Quite alot of people are puting off now days to not have children because they can't afford it and then there are others who are allready living pay check to pay check and then decide to have children and then rely on benefits system to bring said kids up, it is just a recipe for disaster and end up in a position not being able to provide.

ThisThreadCouldOutMe · 16/02/2022 03:33

I don't know where you got your advice from about dropping to part time, but as you've also mentioned getting WTC when you go back to work I suspect it's from someone who doesn't know the new system.
You won't be able to claim any tax credits. They don't exist for new claims. It's all UC credit now.

I'd be very surprised if you weren't better off working full time. I always have been. And I've been a single mum on IS/TC. A student mum on TC. A full time working single mum with top up TCs and part of a couple both working full time and earning just over the threshold. Now due to ill health I'm a single mum again on full UC. It isn't even enough to pay all the bills.
I had the most money when part of a couple, but actually had more spare money as a single parent working full time as my ex was shit with money.

I guess the only thing that might mean you're better off not working is the cost of childcare. I was very fortunate that my mum provided mine very very cheaply.

TyrantosaurusRex · 16/02/2022 03:42

Whoever you are, your choices can be scrutinised and torn apart by someone.

JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 16/02/2022 04:00

I don’t benefit bash at all and am very glad I live in a country with some level of safety net although I think it’s inadequate for those with disabilities. I also think large international corporations should be made to pay their fair share.

That said, all of the above doesn’t negate the fact the OP has made poor choices and should take some responsibility rather than making out she just accidentally fell into this situation. Someone who had their first child in early 20s, can’t state they ‘worked since they were 17’ as though they’ve paid in enough to be entitled to ‘take a year or 2 out of work’ to look after 2 kids. The advice given by the grandmother around giving up work is also not great.

I’m also certain the children's father never presented as a stable and reliable for fatherhood at 20.

Whilst the benefit system isn’t optimal, I don’t see OP as someone who can say ‘you never know what life may throw at you’ as though leaving school at 16 and having 2 kids unmarried close together in early 20s usually results in a great outcome.

Cheekypeach · 16/02/2022 04:45

I hope you had that exact same energy when you heard the Government wrote of £3bn that was fraudulently claimed during Covid

It isn’t either/or. I can be annoyed about the covid fraud while also thinking £1 billion+ is a lot of money.

Cheekypeach · 16/02/2022 04:51

@Lalala1

Well go find the feckless father and have a go at him! U dont know her situation you’ve read her post seen she’s a single mum with 1 child and one on the way and automatically slammed her! For all you know the father could have fucked off recently leaving her pregnant with another child and hasn’t continued being a father physically and financially. She didn’t get herself pregnant and he’s not immune from contraception either! Have a bit of empathy being a single parent isn’t all a bed of roses on benefits or not and am sure she didn’t choose to be one awww wait she’s meant to be psychic and realise he would leave her to parent on her own just like the married woman whose husband done the same thing after 25years. No one knows what tomorrow brings no amount of uni degrees or picking the right partner or good/bad choices changes that!

Oh, blah. Given OP refuses to talk about it I suspect that’s not exactly the case. She also hasn’t confirmed if both children have the same dad. Either way, I would be stunned if OP got pregnant while on the implant or coil, I think it’s more likely she’s been dicing it & now we are all here to foot the bill.

whenthedoveslie · 16/02/2022 05:23

@greyblanket76

Why won't people direct their anger to the government instead of the people who have found themselves (such as me) in these positions?

Eh? Now whilst I am no fan of this government, and have never voted Tory, the government didn't make you pregnant, twice, in your early 20's.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 16/02/2022 05:56

@Meh2020

You do not need to actively job search until your youngest child turns 3. Before that you can claim UC without having to job search.

Meh2020 · 16/02/2022 06:26

@Waxonwaxoff0 thanks - I genuinely did not know this.

oopsIdiditagaintoo · 16/02/2022 06:34

Here's a point for you £31,285 is the UK average wage. Poverty in the UK is 60% of that. Anyone earning under £18771 is living in poverty.

But anyone earning £18,771 who has one child, or more, receives top up benefits, so their net income will be similar to someone earning around 30k. They aren't living in poverty.

SpongebobNoPants · 16/02/2022 06:52

@BulletTrain

Honestly? It's because wages are low. £2k on benefits is £24k a year which is pretty much the average salary for your age group. Half the working people will earn less than you and have commuting/childcare costs.

No, that’s £2k a month TAX FREE… which equates to approximately a £35,000 a year wage. I know, because I make £35k a year and come out with just over £2k a month after tax.

That’s why people are fuming. I have worked my arse off, got a masters degree and several Peter professional qualifications but the OP brings home more than me. It’s a joke.

To add, with the exception of the long term sick, benefits should be a short term solution but I know plenty of people who have made it a lifestyle choice.

I was a single parent (still receive no CM) and worked so damn hard to get the career I have. Yet, financially I could choose to work part time and claim benefits and come out with more money! It’s not right!

My DP’s ex for example… she’s 40, their kids are 13 & 17 years of age. She chose not to work for 3 years up until recently. She has only EVER worked part time through choice, no illnesses, no lack of childcare etc.
She recently forced my SD17 to quit her job and go back to college because she was going to lose her benefits… so she’s teaching her young daughter to be reliant on benefits too rather than to continue working and pay her mum so board.

SpongebobNoPants · 16/02/2022 06:54

*other professional qualifications

Covidwoes · 16/02/2022 06:58

You get more than I did as a FT teacher. I'm sorry, but that's not fair. I think people who are in situations beyond their control deserve benefits. My friend doesn't work and gets benefits because she's disabled, and she absolutely needs every penny. You've chosen to have two kids and to not work. Very different situations.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 16/02/2022 07:04

@oopsIdiditagaintoo

Here's a point for you £31,285 is the UK average wage. Poverty in the UK is 60% of that. Anyone earning under £18771 is living in poverty.

But anyone earning £18,771 who has one child, or more, receives top up benefits, so their net income will be similar to someone earning around 30k. They aren't living in poverty.

Not necessarily! I earn £1000 a month and get top ups of about £450 a month. That's not equivalent to a 30k salary!

Shutupandcry · 16/02/2022 07:05

I think it’s hard OP when you get more for being on benefits and I can see why you’d go down that route. I think people are being rubbed up the wrong way with the ‘anyone could get in this position’- the reason you specifically are is your chose to have two children before you had established a career or savings etc (having children is a choice) and then act as though you’ve fallen into this situation that thousands of women avoid for this very reason.
It’s also interesting you live in zone 1 london, with probably the highest rates on the UK. My husband and I were both professionals on good salaries but lived in zone 4 as that’s what we could afford. I had my children 200 miles away from my family and support network as I couldn’t afford anything close to my parents (expensive area). That’s life for many working people.

catfunk · 16/02/2022 07:08

Really interesting thread.
Op don't forget to think about the long term. Yes you're getting the same income as me for 'not working'. But if you choose to stay in that position long term you're forgoing the opportunity for salary increases, workplace pension, career development, professional qualifications, buying a house etc.