Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

Sorry @Irishmama2015
I do tend to jump in head first when it's one of my soapbox subjects. Disability is one of them. I shouldn't be so quick to do what I'm condemning others for - judging. Apologies

You're right that education is important. It's not enough on its own but it can and does help many people. (We also need investment in affordable housing, social services, mental health, and vocational training opportunities).

1.56 Billion of which the majority is buying houses for btl ll but that's okay, I guess, because they don't claim it directly.

Housing is by far the biggest expense of the welfare system.

I've not rtft but I would never criticise people who claim benefits. I would however criticise the need to claim benefits. A huge number of people who claim benefits are in work, but what they're earning isn't enough to live on. How can that be right? If you work, you should get paid enough to keep a roof over your head and feed yourself and your family without state intervention. The system is fucked.

@Tealightsandd thank you, I totally understand and also appreciate that your advocating for people on this thread ❤️

[quote purplehairlady]"**@greyblanket76* @murasaki* I'm about to be a single mum to 2 under 2. My whole family lives in zone 1. How does it make sense for me to still private rent somewhere cheaper but I'm completely isolated and have no help from family or anyone else? It makes no sense at all"

But that's what working people end up having to do 🤷🏾‍♀️[/quote]
Exactly. Because the rents in zone 1 were (and are) insane. I commuted for an hour each way to get to my FT job, having to take the bus because of my wheelchair and no tube where I had to live to be able to pay the rent and was paid 1k less a month than OP for the privilege.

Oh, and I was "too well-functioning" for DLA.

I was a total mug.

@louderthan

I've not rtft but I would never criticise people who claim benefits. I would however criticise the need to claim benefits. A huge number of people who claim benefits are in work, but what they're earning isn't enough to live on. How can that be right? If you work, you should get paid enough to keep a roof over your head and feed yourself and your family without state intervention. The system is fucked.

This is the other side of Benefits.

A lot of people critical of claimants soon quiet down when it's pointed out that they'd have to pay triple for everything of the benefit system stopped.

Using made up figures of a Tesco worker or care worker.
The wages they're paid £10ph and earn £1500 a month. UC top them up to £2500 a month or they can't afford rent, food etc.

Benefits end. Their wages have to go up £2500 a month.

Now all elderly.people in care homes bills have risen £1000 a month.
Shopping has tripled to pay workers.
Fuel has quadrupled to pay the truckers.
NHS is gone, can't afford to pay a living wage to ambulance workers and hospital staff anymore. Etc.

People forget that Universal Credit literally props up society, without it, Costa Coffee would be around £20 for a small.

I don't go around making negative comments about people on benefits, I don't know what everyone's circumstances are so can't judge.

Having said that, I came from a working class background, had a paper round from 12 yrs old, summer jobs from 13 working picking strawberries and other soft fruits at the farm a 4 mile bike ride away, weekend jobs from 15 and worked 25 hrs a week in the evenings all though a-levels and university.

First in my extended family to go to uni, didn't get to finish my degree as my mum died very suddenly, dad was already terminally ill. Continued working but moved to full time.

Got married, we eloped as didn't want and couldn't afford a big shindig, bought a very cheap house in 2010 which was the best we could afford with no help, kept working and saving so we could afford a baby which happened in 2014. We knew we wouldn't be able to afford more than 1 child in childcare so decided that we would be content with one child.

I went back to work when DD was 9 months old, childcare was twice the cost of our mortgage every month which was crippling. DH and I lived on the cheapest food, no treats and worked ourselves ragged to manage until DD was 3 and we got the 30 free hours.

Now nearly 8 years later, because I went back to work and was able to continue to progress we are financially in a really good place. My salary has quadrupled, we have no childcare costs, still in the really cheap house but we've been able to start to afford improvements. No plans to move because I'd rather pay off the mortgage early and fully own my house then end up with a bigger mortgage just for the sake of a fancier house or postcode.

It does frustrate me that other people get to spend so much more time with their children when young because they're being subsidised, but ultimately I also know that the route I chose has put me in a better position in the future. If DH ever leaves me then he'll be worse off but I'll be fine, if I lose my job then my experience and connections put me in a good position to find another one quickly, and the career I've chosen is typically a WFH role so I have a bit more contingency in case of long term illness/immobility, if not then I have the better part of a years net salary saved to tide me over, if either I or DH die we have insurances and investments that will look after the one who lives and see DD right.

I really can understand why some people feel resentful of people who are on benefits if all they look at is the present and a surface view of for example a mother spending all day with her kids. Especially if they are feeling sad about constantly feeling like they're rushing about, dropping their kids to other people and working, then sorting the house at 10pm because it's the first chance after getting home, doing tea, baths, bed, finishing up work emails.....

I'd just like to point out that we live in a place where this topic can be debated, where we can all have views and opinions, where we either work or claim benefits but ultimately, a huge majority of us have a roof over our heads and food in the cupboards either way... we are very fortunate to be in a position where this even IS a debate, there are endless people all over the world tonight who are literally penniless with no welfare system in place to help feed their starving children, and no economy to provide them a way to earn for themselves.

I'm not saying don't debate this topic, I've already posted up thread about my own views! But I am saying take a deep breath and be thankful for a minute that we have jobs and welfare to even be discussing in the first place.

Why would anyone have to pay triple?

At the moment people are taxed in order to pay for the benefits.

Why would a small coffee cost £20? It's not like most of the £3 you pay today goes into the pocket of the person serving you. Most of it goes into the greedy pockets of the owners and CEOs.

And it's not like people need Costa Coffee anyway. The idea that everyone should be walking around with a cup of expensive coffee is fairly recent. People can just buy a jar of nescafe and make their own coffee at home or at work.

Why would anyone have to pay triple?

You'd be lucky if it was just triple.

Take a Costa with 10 employees.
They're all paid £1000 a month.
They're topped up another £1000 by UC.
If UC stopped, instead of Costa having a £10k a month wage bill, it's now £20k
You think they'll just soak that cost up?..
Nope. The consumer would pay it.

If you can't understand that, I don't know how easier I can explain it.

I don't think I've ever bashed anyone for being on benefits but I definitely feel the system does have some issues and keeps many people from being able to move on. I wish we invested more in helping people climb out of the poverty trap as benefits do seem in some cases to keep people stuck.

I have multiple family members who live exclusively on benefits and professionally have worked supporting some of the most vulnerable members of society.

Ironically, the person who has been the most vocal 'benefit basher' to my face is one of my own DP's who eventually claimed disability benefit for nearly 25 years until pension (whilst doing the odd bit of cash in hand work on the side)! This parent refused to claim benefits until I was an adult but I bloody wish they would've swallowed their pride when I was a child because our family was under tremendous pressure when they didn't work (frequently) and that was hard to live through.

When they started on their most recent tirade about people milking the system I pointed out they see themselves as a 'worthy' claimant but others not. Everyone I've ever supported has mentally justified their claim one way or another, even though some also express their discomfort with it. I don't have to decide if people reach the thresholds so I purposefully don't give any thought as if I'm honest, I have to work quite hard at being non-judgemental in some cases! The reality is, if they meet criteria, that's all that matters and I try and stay focussed on the big picture. I'm pleased to live in a country that offers support when needed and accept that means it won't be perfect all of the time because let's face it, the alternative of no support feels so much worse.

[quote Cheekypeach]@MaryAndHerNet I take zero issue with UC topping up those workers. Well, I would prefer the government make their employers pay them properly, but I don’t begrudge the top up as it stands.

But OP is on maternity because she is having a second child as a single mum with no responsible father in the picture. We are therefore picking up the financial slack. That’s the part I object to.[/quote]
Well go find the feckless father and have a go at him! U dont know her situation you’ve read her post seen she’s a single mum with 1 child and one on the way and automatically slammed her! For all you know the father could have fucked off recently leaving her pregnant with another child and hasn’t continued being a father physically and financially. She didn’t get herself pregnant and he’s not immune from contraception either! Have a bit of empathy being a single parent isn’t all a bed of roses on benefits or not and am sure she didn’t choose to be one awww wait she’s meant to be psychic and realise he would leave her to parent on her own just like the married woman whose husband done the same thing after 25years. No one knows what tomorrow brings no amount of uni degrees or picking the right partner or good/bad choices changes that!

@MaryAndHerNet there would come a point where people refused to pay and Costa would have to soak up the extra cost or go out of business.

Aldi and Lild manage to pay the living wage (or close enough to) and still manage to be cheaper than Tesco and Sainsburys.

Aldi and Lild manage to pay the living wage (or close enough to) and still manage to be cheaper than Tesco and Sainsburys.
I can assure you plenty of Aldi and Lidl staff are being topped up by UC as well. Their wages are still low. It's like £10 an hour!

[quote Frequency]@MaryAndHerNet there would come a point where people refused to pay and Costa would have to soak up the extra cost or go out of business.

Aldi and Lild manage to pay the living wage (or close enough to) and still manage to be cheaper than Tesco and Sainsburys.[/quote]
You're missing the point.
It's not about just Costa.
Aldi and Lidl workers claim UC.
Asda workers too.

Admin staff in hospitals.
Receptionists.
Security staff.
Delivery drivers.
The guy that pushes the beds around a hospital.
Millions and millions of people claim Universal Credit top ups.

If they all had to be paid a proper wage that covers what top up they get, the country would grind to a halt.

I regret using Costa, you obviously misunderstand the point. I hope others got it.

@MaryAndHerNet

Why would anyone have to pay triple?

You'd be lucky if it was just triple.

Take a Costa with 10 employees.
They're all paid £1000 a month.
They're topped up another £1000 by UC.
If UC stopped, instead of Costa having a £10k a month wage bill, it's now £20k
You think they'll just soak that cost up?..
Nope. The consumer would pay it.

If you can't understand that, I don't know how easier I can explain it.

Yes but the employees wage is only a small fraction of what you pay for Costa coffee. Most of it is profit, the rest is spent on marketing, lease on the building, gas and electric and insurance. The increase in wages could easily be met by the owners and CEOs making a little bit less.

Takeaway coffee is a massive waste of money anyway. You can make coffee with a kettle for a fraction of the price. I can undersand people paying £3 for a nice cup of coffee that they sit in the shop and drink but paying that price for a cup to take away is like people paying pub prices for a can of beer or bottle of win to take home when they could pay a fraction of that for the same thing from a supermarket.

But that's what working people end up having to do

FFS. How many times?

• the OP is ‘working people’.
• many people who claim benefits are also ‘working people’
• demanding a single parent moves away from family for cheaper rent only serves to exacerbate the problem. People need support networks when parenting alone or work quickly becomes impossible - leading to more claiming of benefits. Working makes a single parent a tax payer. Convenient to forget that, eh?

I realise that, Cuno. The NMW would need to double to go anywhere near close to getting a sizable number of the working poor off benefits however the living wage is a start. It needs to rise but its better than the NMW.

@lalala1 Nothing will be said about the father doing a runner . Op done it all by herself according to MN. Sadly it seems woman love to bash woman.

"If they all had to be paid a proper wage that covers what top up they get, the country would grind to a halt."
It really wouldn't. Rents would lower for one thing without the benefits system keeping them artificially high. And how do you think things worked before top-up benefits were available? Businesses had to pay a fair wage otherwise people wouldn't work for them. and they'd go bust.

Here:

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-8-july-2021/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-8-july-2021#households-on-uc-header

5 million households on Universal Credit.
That could be 1 person or a couple. So between 5million and 10 million people claim top ups to give them a more liveable income.

Can you see how if it stopped, there would be a monumental shortfall for millions of people.
Asda, Lidl, Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsbury's, ocado, Waitrose all of their staff would need a huge raise, which will push prices sky high.

I understood your point. I just firmly believe that wages need to rise. If your business cannot survive without government subsidies it is not a viable business.

Those employed in non profit organisations are a different matter but the government should not be having to prop up Tesco while it rakes in billions in profit.

And how do you think things worked before top-up benefits were available?

Oh dear. You really don't get it do you?

How do YOU think it worked before benefit top ups? Do you think it was all fine and dandy or do you think there was a necessity bring in TOP UPS...

Think real hard...

Would they have brought in Top Ups if there was no need for them?

Benefits are so high relatively because wages haven’t kept up with the increases in the cost of living. I can’t get worked up about the people who claim benefits because who is ultimately benefiting from our taxes? Buy to let landlords and businesses that don’t pay a living wage. Direct your irritation towards the politicians who have allowed this financial situation to happen.

@Frequency

I understood your point. I just firmly believe that wages need to rise. If your business cannot survive without government subsidies it is not a viable business.

Those employed in non profit organisations are a different matter but the government should not be having to prop up Tesco while it rakes in billions in profit.

I agree..

Here's a point for you
£31,285 is the UK average wage.
Poverty in the UK is 60% of that.
Anyone earning under £18771 is living in poverty.

(Universal credit is made up of elements. For an unemployed 25 year old adult they would get £324 a month or £3898.08 a year)