Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

I became a single mother of four when the ex decided he preferred his best mates wife. I was on benefits for 3 months before I decided I couldn't live like that. Shit money, no motivation etc. Anyway i got a part time job and worked my way up as the kids got older. Due to my work i come into contact with many many people on benefits. Its very true that sometimes life throws you a load of shit and you end up on benefits, these people are easy to spot and want to do anything they can to better their situation. However it is also very true that there are many many people who never want to work and just have kids assuming that the state will fund them, the entitlement is astounding. There are literally whole generations of families who have never worked. Its these people who seem to have it all on benefits because they know how to work the system. They know for instance that disability benefits are excluded from the benefits cap, so you will have parent one claiming for mental health very very hard to disprove that someone is lying about their mental health. Parent two will either be claiming for the same thing or something equally as hard to disprove. Then the kids "will have" adhd or asd. They are claiming for all of these via disability benefits plus getting cheaper rent and council tax because of this, plus all the normal universal credit or legacy benefits on top. I dealt with one family that were on £36000 a year in benefits, now that is bound to piss of people who work hard and earn nowhere near that. Not everyone on benefits is like this of course but there are lots of them that do behave like this.

I am proud that we live in a society that gives a safety net to those who need it through benefits. I also think it should provide a more generous permanent decent income for those unlucky with health/disability who can't work. Most benefits are therefore fine by me if not inadequate.

However I don't like the culture some people have of "I'm entitled" where people who could work choose benefits instead because when they compare they would lose money through working or working more hours. Or they don't take the job as they would only be £x better off for 30 hours of work. (The system should be changed so that working always earns more for healthy people so this choice isn't there - can't really blame individuals for making a logical choice).

Whilst it is logical to stay home if working doesn't pay much or any more than pure benefits it just doesn't sit right as the deal that healthy adults should have with society. I think we should all feel a duty to support ourselves and contribute if able. There seems to be no acknowledgement that what they claim instead of working (where there is a choice) is only there because of the work of others. It's taking from society without doing your bit to contribute even though you could. Then there is feeling entitled to a bigger house etc when people supporting themselves independently also have to make do with housing not as good as they would choose.

It reminds me of the bear grylls island programme. No one minds if the older person, the person with one leg or the person with vomiting doesn't chop much wood or fetch water. They are happy to accept the contributions they can make and share the rewards of the group equally. They do mind those who could work don't contribute and only join in at mealtime.

At the same time though we should be looking at those who don't work or contribute because they can coast from huge inherited wealth. Taxing more of that would help fund what society needs. Private rental costs taking money from low earners to those with wealth are also a big problem as others have said. This makes it hard to make working better than benefits without benefits being just too low to live on reasonably.

Try being on benefits & living in a council house, then you will understand about being called a scrounger. I live in a council house because my marriage ended & I'm on benefits because I'm totally disabled, housebound & need a wheelchair.

The public health housing and homelessness emergency is a major cause of the increasing demand on the welfare state.

It costs the taxpayer many billions in direct and indirect costs. Remember too that there's only so much an employer, particularly a small business, can afford to increase their wages by.

Billions on housing homeless families and vulnerable individuals in expensive but crappy homeless accommodation.

Billions on housing benefits for ever increasing private rents.

And billions and billions on the knock on effects. Insecure housing hugely impacts on both physical and mental health. It has costly consequences for the NHS, social care criminal justice system, and other public services.

There's no magic panacea but the welfare bill would fall if we had more social housing.

I would love to see your monthly statement tbh, OP.

Or even an explanation of your breakdown - because your figures seem way off when you take in to consideration the rental cap and the benefit cap.

Plus losing 60p to every pound when it comes to SMP (it's treated as earnings with UC...)

@000YourMum000

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

@000YourMum000 another one who clearly cannot read. I AM ON MATERNITY LEAVE. I WORK. I WILL BE GOING BACK TO WORK AFTER MY MATERNITY LEAVE ENDS.

If you read the post and my responses you'll see that I was talking about the maximum UC I can get PLUS SMP. My point was, if you benefit bash, surely you can see why people stay on benefits when they can get so much more then working full time. My focus was on the system and how fucked it is. I've asked a question and MANY people have answered which is what I was looking for. Read before you comment next time

@IrishMama2015

Op I'm from a working class home and all of us Worked from ages 13 on after school and every school holiday and were pushed and pushed and pushed by parents to get an education and to make the right CHOICES to ensure we didn't end up on benefits. Over and over we were told education was the key, we were warned on the dangers of having children young and under no circumstances could we even mention having a boyfriend/girlfriend at home until we were mid 20s.

All but 1 of us now have degrees and masters and professional jobs and homes of our own.

My DH is from a benefits background. They were brought up to think education was out of reach and that they were entitled to be housed and benefits. No one batted an eyelid at young people having babies they weren't prepared for in non committed relationships. Any woman who worked made sure it was just enough hours to get the max benefits and multiple children was the only way forward to ensure you got a council house etc.

I think it depends a lot on how some people are brought up and what they are exposed to and think is the norm.

My MIL can't understand the choices we have made owning our own home that we have to pay for and maintain and both working and paying childcare. I can't understand how she thinks that's not our duty as able bodied adults who chose to have DC.

My parents worked all their lives. It was a blended family. Its Been a bit of a mix. Some are in good jobs and would come under middle class. Then some in min wage type jobs . Couple not working due to disabilities.

For my own children I have 1 who is not academic at all. She has a mental health disorder . And has been through hell. So she is not working for now.

My son is much more academic and he's in a middle class type job.

I'm at home looking after my child who has a disability.

And maybe I'm just dumb but no I don't know what a goady post is. I'd never even heard of that word before I used MN

OP there are plenty of people who work 40 hours (or more) every week and still receive substantially less money than you do from benefits. They couldn't afford to live in a house that costs £1200 a month to rent. I don't think that is right. At all. Nobody on benefits should receive more money than someone working full time earns.

Seriously, OP, SMP is classed as earnings with UC.

Every pound you get in SMP, you'll lose 60p of your UC entitlement.
Your figures are way off - but you should know that?

Everyone knows millions are unemployed by choice and have whole families that have never worked as they game the system..

Oh

Really

Let's take a look:
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/march2021

Meanwhile, the number of people in long-term unemployment (those unemployed for over 12 months) has increased by 54,000 on the year, and 3,000 on the quarter, to 360,000.

67million people in the UK
360k long term unemployed.
0.5373134328358209% of the population
...

@Danikm151

People on this thread don’t seem to understand the UC/ benefit system they just see the amount OP has posted and it’s “ that’s more than I get a month” yet don’t realise that most UC claimants work and some full time and are still entitled to UC help (even if it’s not much) that’s the way the system is set up.

Some posters should actually look on an online benefit calculator I’ll bet a few on less/same wages than OP has stated would be surprised to learn they also qualify for UC

[quote Sofiegiraffe]@IrishMama2015

We had remarkably similar experiences in terms of being pushed to prioritise further education.
This resonated strongly:

I'm from a working class home and all of us Worked from ages 13 on after school and every school holiday and were pushed and pushed and pushed by parents to get an education and to make the right CHOICES to ensure we didn't end up on benefits. Over and over we were told education was the key
[/quote]
We must tell the NHS. No more doctors, nurses, operations, or medicine.

A degree is the miracle cure for illness and disability.

Shall we tell all the Long Covid sufferers to just go to university instead of Lourdes?

@MaryAndHerNet How many of the 67 million are of working age? Not children or elderly?

It's also not OP that gets most of the money. It's her landlord.

And yet, in England (unlike the devolved nations) Right to Buy has still not been banned.

[quote Lalala1]@Danikm151

People on this thread don’t seem to understand the UC/ benefit system they just see the amount OP has posted and it’s “ that’s more than I get a month” yet don’t realise that most UC claimants work and some full time and are still entitled to UC help (even if it’s not much) that’s the way the system is set up.

Some posters should actually look on an online benefit calculator I’ll bet a few on less/same wages than OP has stated would be surprised to learn they also qualify for UC[/quote]
Absolutely. I don't understand why people are having a go, I'm on UC but work full time, it tops up my low income. They need to check their eligibility if they think they are earning so little on their full time job while wrongly assuming OP is rolling in it. I'm assuming OP's high rent is due to the area, you only getting housing allowance based on what you're entitled to in the local authority not based on your rent. My housing element doesn't cover my rent because it's more than what my LA says my rent should be!

I get less than that working full time. A lot less abs still have to pay my mortgage and full council tax etc. This is what gets to me, as a childless 40 years old couple we get nothing. No benefits, no fee travel (pensioners and under 22’s in Scotland get free bus travel) etc.

Also I have checked and we are not entitled to anything via UC, surely you can see why I feel it’s slightly unfair.

@TinselTitsAndGlitteryBits

I would love to see your monthly statement tbh, OP.

Or even an explanation of your breakdown - because your figures seem way off when you take in to consideration the rental cap and the benefit cap.

Plus losing 60p to every pound when it comes to SMP (it's treated as earnings with UC...)

@TinselTitsAndGlitteryBits I'm not effected by the rental cap or benefit cap (I don't think anyway).

I've already wrote about it. I'm in the last few months of maternity leave so I no longer receive SMP. I receive £1670. £1200 goes on rent, £109 on council tax, £72 on gas & electric and so on and so on. I'm left with £73 a month. When I was receiving SMP it was £1507 (a bit of deductions because of the SMP) + £638. That was only for a limited time as I'm no longer getting SMP. Take into account that my rent is £1200 btw, that's why the amount is so high

@greyblanket76 Yes I did read your post(s), and I am sorry my post has upset you. FWIW I would claim what you claim if I woke up in your current circumstances. But I am confused as to why you can’t see that the fundamental unfairness of the system is going to lead some people to feel resentful

I understand that you are on maternity leave. Therefore, at the moment, you are not working. If I were to be on maternity leave with a child at home, all the money for rent, bills, etc. would have to come out of my savings. That’s the difference. Furthermore, you have the choice to continue not working which, as you have explained, is more lucrative. This is not your fault. However, I still think it would be morally questionable if you were to choose not to return to work.

@TinselTitsAndGlitteryBits

Seriously, OP, SMP is classed as earnings with UC.

Every pound you get in SMP, you'll lose 60p of your UC entitlement.
Your figures are way off - but you should know that?

Did you not see where I said some figures are a rough estimate as I haven't worked out the deductions. I haven't had my second baby yet so I don't know the correct amounts for what I'll be receiving when I'm on SMP then

Meanwhile, the number of people in long-term unemployment (those unemployed for over 12 months) has increased by 54,000 on the year, and 3,000 on the quarter, to 360,000.

There has been an increase in the number of working age people who are too unwell to work. It would help if the causes were addressed (poverty, insecure housing, domestic abuse, NHS waiting list delays). Long Covid will add to the number (unless mitigations such as masks and good ventilation are utilised).