Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

[quote greyblanket76]@HTH1

Pretty sure there is a maximum savings limit when you start to lose benefits, which is why there is a ‘use it or lose it’ mentality and you see people on benefits with posh cars, huge flat screen TVs etc. Do you actually know anyone on benefits as the two comments you've made so far don't sound realistic at all? Of course there may be some that spend their benefits money on useless things but the majority can't afford to as they don't have that money to spare. Not one person that I know who gets UC has anything like this

Like many others, I have a lot of sympathy for the (genuinely) disabled or those who, for example, work long hours but are so underpaid that they need top up benefits. I also would not begrudge someone who did everything right (had DC with their DH when they could actually afford them then they and DH lost their jobs for reasons beyond their control) but am not happy to pay for the feckless.

And there is it. 'Those that did everything right.' Who are you to speak on what's right or not when it comes to people's lives? And I don't mean people that have kids just so they can claim benefits. I mean those that have found themselves in unfortunate situations. I guess you don't have any empathy or anything because they didn't do things 'right' in your eyes. Oh also 19% of taxpayers money went on welfare. I hardly doubt YOU'RE paying for the 'feckless'[/quote]
You’re right, I don’t know anyone on benefits and have never claimed them. Quite happy for people to make whatever choices they like as long as I’m not picking up the tab!

@sarah13xx

I wouldn’t bash people with good reason to be on benefits at all. I do think there are too many people cheating the system though, like a certain couple I know who for the last 20 years have been managing to claim false disability benefits and carer allowance for the partner. The ‘disabled’ party is by no means disabled at all but is at the doctors hassling them for an appointment every other day. This isn’t me saying to the naked eye it doesn’t appear that he’s disabled, I know categorically that he has absolutely nothing wrong and puts on a big act in front of medical professionals. They have no shame 🤦🏼‍♀️ There are so many people who genuinely need benefits! My partner works every hour under the sun but only qualified for one payment after 6/7 months of lockdown last year because I had a job. We had no physical way of paying the bills and it drove me mad that he’s worked so hard all his life but wasn’t allowed to work yet we weren’t helped at all while this couple up the road from us have got their feet up and the bills paid 🙄 Seems unfair! I’m on maternity leave now but have started up my own business for cash because we just can’t survive on my £650 a month smp. I’m up til 1am every night working and back up at 6 before my baby gets up just to be able to pay the bills, it’s so hard

That may have been the case with DLA which will soon no longer exist, but it certainly isn't with PIP. To claim pip you have to produce real evidence of diagnosis. Even then they assess you and decide for themselves how it affects your daily life. If they think you can make yourself a cup of tea you are refused the daily living element, if they think you can walk the length off a bus they refuse the mobility element. Many claimants are refused pip and have to go to a tribunal where senior medical professionals decide your award.

It is the system unfortunately.

Some people will exploit it, to the fullest degree
Some have to exploit it because as pointed out many times there is too big a disparity between benefits and working a lowish paid job.
Some are in genuine need through no fault of their own.

It is the third group that no-one would have issue with I think? I think many are stuck in the middle band and would be happy to work if the income was comparable to being on benefits. Unfortunately it is the first group who just play the system and have no qualms about doing so that we are all aware of and that cause such bad feeling.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

The op has 2 under 2 in her early 20’s, of course people can say she was an engineer in her own life and as such made choices that weren’t ideal.

Many wait until I’m committed relationships, married, with savings before having children for this very reason, the OP has made poor life choices that have led them to relying on benefits[/quote]
@Cheeseonpost you seem to be very fixated on my personal life. I'm guessing you were there in my relationship when I'd been with him since I was 17. No? I thought not. Get a life man, you don't know anything about me except from this post. I'm so sorry that I got pregnant at a young age and wasn't married but unfortunately not everyone can have a perfect life like you

I became a single mum 5 years ago and rely on tax credits to top up my wages. I work full time but still need help. What gets me is im tarred with the same brush as people who do nothing and never have. I also get sick of people telling me I'm lucky to have a free house. I live in a council house and pay full rent which isn't far off local private rent.

WTF.
I don't see much benefit bashing on MN. Apart from the fact there are 2 threads tonight about such benefit bashing.

But you have 2 kids, single and have take home of £2388. WTF. That is a lot more than done working couples. That's a gross salary of £36,750.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

I was merely answering your question

If you can’t do something it doesn’t mean you should have the right to do so without judgment because it’s not fair.

I quite frankly don’t care why you can’t save, or earn enough to support a family. If you can’t financially support the children you choose to have that’s shit, and rightfully is judged[/quote]
I couldn't care less if you judge me or not. The opinions of narrow minded people like yourself mean nothing to me. I work and get tax credits. I'm doing nothing illegal and I'm a good person. And my DS is fine.

@konasana

Consider this. I have a PhD, a full time job, only one child (can't afford more), and work my fucking arse off. Only earn £2700 per month.

It's really stings to hear that people can earn almost as much for sitting on their arse and having more children. Does that help you understand?

You may say - no one is forcing you to work, you could claim £2300/month in benefits if you wanted to. But no, no I couldn't. I just could not bring myself to do that when I can work.

Ask yourself why you earn such a low wage when you have a PhD?

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

You don’t understand the concept of critical illness cover do you

We have comprehensive insurance that covers most of our main bills in the event of one or both of us becoming disabled or suffering injury that impedes our ability to work[/quote]
I was diagnosed at 16 with my disability. In my teens and early-ish 20s I was, although sometimes in pain, able. I wouldn't be able to get critical illness cover that I could afford on my wage. So if I became too disabled to work I'd probably have to claim tax credits. That would have already happened if it wasn't for covid. As now I can WFH.

I already get PIP. But apparently I don't get bashed for that. Though I am a disabled person who chose to have kids in their 20s... Maybe I will?

@Sugarplumfairy65 in what world Is that such a low wage?

I've yet to come across anyone who begrudges another person who is actively doing what they can to help themselves, but I've come across quite a few people who begrudge those who make choices that increase their dependence on the welfare state simply because they prefer the tax payer to support their choices.

This is kind of how I feel. Lots of people on UC work, yes, but deliberately low hours. I have worked in retail. Plenty of colleagues refusing to work more than 16 hours due to the tapering-off system. That said - I deliberately work more than 16 hours because I want the funded childcare. Both costing the taxpayer!

@flowerycurtain

I haven't read the whole thread. I don't think I do judge people on benefits. Especially parents of young kids.

However, there is a theme in this thread where circumstances change unexpectedly. This seems to be code for "father stops paying". We should be judging those men as a society. It takes two parents to bring up kids, I can't imagine how hard life is as a single parent. The very very least they could do is pay their way.

The responsibility always falls on the woman though doesn't it? 'She's made bad choices in life' 'she's got 2 under 2 and she's only early 20s' 'she can't afford her kids.' 'She she she' and hardly mention about the dad. When they have mentioned their kids dad it's to ask if he's paying his way and that's it. Nothing to do with him not being involved in his kids lives or anything of the sort. It always falls on the woman. And this is MUMSnet. The irony is laughable

There is a vast array of societal problems caused by the fact that humans have sex for pleasure.

Ever heard of contraceptives?

There are other considerations too which you don’t really think about when you’re in your 20’s but things like pension contributions have a massive effect from taking unpaid breaks from work and working part time. I did work part time due to ill health for 10yrs and now I’ve had a surgery and improved a lot im back full time and trying to bump up my pension. Also career progression. But yes you need to weigh that up against time off with your kids. The U.K. benefit system I think is very generous and many people on benefits work part time as they aren’t making much more money being full time. Not sure what the answer to that is, so many do 16hrs. Young girls in one of my teams just dropped to 16hrs for that exact reason.

People benefit bash due to the fact people can choose to work very few hours and get as much money as people who work full time - you can see why surely? I was on benefits when my eldest was born as I was 16 and a young mum. I’m now a higher rate tax payer so paid it back and more, and was only on full benefits for 1yr until I went into education. For me there was a lot more to consider than just money; pride and all above

@Sugarplumfairy65 how is that a low wage? Fuck sake.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

There is a vast array of societal problems caused by the fact that humans have sex for pleasure.

Ever heard of contraceptives?

No, never.

For the "My Money" Types... Enjoy...

here we go:

According to mthis link:

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2021/oct/28/autumn-budget-2021-where-the-money-comes-from-and-what-it-is-spent-on

UK spent £254Bn on "welfare"

This link is a little older but we'll use it for basic ease of calculation:

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/howisthewelfarebudgetspent/2016-03-16

Of that £254Bn on "Welfare" 1% went to unemployment.
or: £2540000000

so here it says 75% of population is employed.
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/latest

UK Population: 67million
workers: 50250000

so £2540000000 divided by 50250000
equals: £50.5472637 from each employed person a year or £4.21 a month.

That's based on pure maths and doesn't take into account the wage differences where a high earner will pay a bit more, an average earner pays a bit less and a low earner claims back in UC what they pay out.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

You don’t understand the concept of critical illness cover do you

We have comprehensive insurance that covers most of our main bills in the event of one or both of us becoming disabled or suffering injury that impedes our ability to work[/quote]
I tried to get critical illness cover but was refused due to existing conditions.
Even if you can get it, it isn't always affordable.
My life insurance runs out next year. I won't be able to get another policy because of incurable cancer.

I only bash people who have baby after baby without any intention of paying for them. There's a couple at our school who have 9 children and they don't work , yes that pisses me off.