Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

Consider this. I have a PhD, a full time job, only one child (can't afford more), and work my fucking arse off. Only earn £2700 per month.

It's really stings to hear that people can earn almost as much for sitting on their arse and having more children. Does that help you understand?

You may say - no one is forcing you to work, you could claim £2300/month in benefits if you wanted to. But no, no I couldn't. I just could not bring myself to do that when I can work.

i think it worth rememebring that the government made the papers recently for writing off 4.7bn to fraud.

4.7bn would have paid OPS rent for 3,916,666.67 months or 326388.889 years..

people get all bent out of shape that someone might be getting £1000 of "Their" money.. that 4.7bn could have handed 4700000 of the poorest in society an extra £1000 a year. Imagine how many kids would not be hungry right now... or how many pensioners could pay their heating.

Its a drop in an ocean of expenditure.

@BulletTrain

So presumably you could afford all your expenses alone, including childcare costs/mortgage/bills with no benefit assistance if you separated from your partner?

I could. So could DH. That's why I/we only had one.

Fair enough. Not many people could though. There are a lot of SAHMs on here.

@konasana

Consider this. I have a PhD, a full time job, only one child (can't afford more), and work my fucking arse off. Only earn £2700 per month.

It's really stings to hear that people can earn almost as much for sitting on their arse and having more children. Does that help you understand?

You may say - no one is forcing you to work, you could claim £2300/month in benefits if you wanted to. But no, no I couldn't. I just could not bring myself to do that when I can work.

You "only" earn that. I earn about half that... !

I think benefits are hugely important, and that they are badly named. Benefits are a safety net, and every year they save vulnerable adults and children growing up in poverty. I wish there were more social support, and I am disturbed by the way governments have eroded the welfare state.

Inevitably, some people will abuse the system. I have direct personal experience of this - my in-laws are benefit cheats, having been sanctioned and threatened with prison, and continue to see benefits as a god-given right rather than support in a time of need. I do find them intensely infuriating on a personal level.

But, it's really easy to think about individuals you know who seem to be less-than-deserving, rather than about the system. As a system, benefits help a lot of people. There's very little cheating - and cheating would exist in any system, however good.

What worries me more is the moralistic stance attached to benefits in this country.

@damnthisvirusandmarriage

It’s ridiculous tarring all people who use benefits with the same brush.

I’m claiming UC. I’m a single parent. I work every hour god sends working school time and times my DC are with their father. I pay all the bills. And food. And do all the house work. I work the administration side of my job when DC are in bed or busy.

I pay all the debts from our marriage which failed so that the children have a roof over their head.

I’m exhausted. My whole body aches all the time. My job is very physical.

I’ve had a few months where I’ve earned enough not to be able to claim UC which is a huge achievement for a self employed single parent.

Yet I could be accused of being lazy or scrounging off the government etc.

Pfft. People need to mind their own business and stop judging and concentrate on the many problems of their own.

100%. Even our circumstances are completely different however people can hear you're on benefits and judge you straight away without even knowing the facts. Some people have already shown their lack of knowledge regarding benefits as they assume everyone that claims is choosing not to work. They won't even have all the facts but will still form an opinion. It's sad

I'm a socialist. I don't begrudge the benefits system, because that is the 'cost' of living in the sort of society I choose to live in.

I had the great good fortune to benefit from the NHS, free comprehensive education etc and I think that is amazing - I don't want that taken away from anybody. My grandparents were Trade Unionists and my entire family has, in one way or another, worked to support social justice.

I am a higher-rate tax payer (and Scottish, so my higher rate is 'higher higher' rate) and that's fine. I think it is a privilege to be able to contribute to the welfare of people who are more vulnerable / less able.

However, OP, I do weirdly find that you have stirred up my inner gammon.

Why should I pay for an assumedly able-bodied person in their early 20s to stay at home with two children they have had out of choice, when there are disabled people out there struggling to turn on their heating?

Now, if I'm getting annoyed about this - and I am a full-on, Guardian-knitting, muesli-reading, composting type - can you see why others are getting pissed off, too?

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

Of course, as I earn well and have Independant savings, I also waited until in a role and company where maternity pay was great (6 months full pay) and had enough saved to cover the rest and more.

I also have life insurance as does my husband

Because some people make choices in life that mean they don’t rely on benefits.

Not rocket science (although it might as well be for some on here)[/quote]
Presumably you have a plan for if you become permanently disabled as well, which will pay you enough for the rest of your life. Presumably you also know it's a priveledge to have enough money to pay all these probably not cheap insurance premiums.

@konasana

Consider this. I have a PhD, a full time job, only one child (can't afford more), and work my fucking arse off. Only earn £2700 per month.

It's really stings to hear that people can earn almost as much for sitting on their arse and having more children. Does that help you understand?

You may say - no one is forcing you to work, you could claim £2300/month in benefits if you wanted to. But no, no I couldn't. I just could not bring myself to do that when I can work.

Lucky you. I have a PhD and, like you, can't afford more than one child. I'd love to be earning as well as you. I'm not on benefits either, but that's because there's a massive gap between being on benefits and earning 27k.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

Of course, as I earn well and have Independant savings, I also waited until in a role and company where maternity pay was great (6 months full pay) and had enough saved to cover the rest and more.

I also have life insurance as does my husband

Because some people make choices in life that mean they don’t rely on benefits.

Not rocket science (although it might as well be for some on here)[/quote]
That's good. There are a lot of SAHMs on here who rely financially on their partners, do you also judge them the same way for not having the means to support their children in the event of a separation?

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Avarua

I’d go as far as to say 20 year olds of either sex aren’t known for making the best parents. All things considered.[/quote]
Good job I was 21. Phew.

@Mumoblue

Honestly there’s no point in arguing people who are committed to misunderstanding how benefits actually work and what actually costs the average person. If you’re happy to ignore the Tory piss ups and tax dodgers, but you seethe over “handouts” to people living in poverty, you don’t dislike economic waste- you dislike the poor. Just own it.

@Mumoblue I think you're certainly right here. I'm happy I started the thread as I've certainly got a deeper insight into the minds of some. As you've said, some aren't even bothered to get their facts right but clearly it's okay to turn a blind eye to some of the things done by the government

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

Of course, as I earn well and have Independant savings, I also waited until in a role and company where maternity pay was great (6 months full pay) and had enough saved to cover the rest and more.

I also have life insurance as does my husband

Because some people make choices in life that mean they don’t rely on benefits.

Not rocket science (although it might as well be for some on here)[/quote]
Also you sound like you have no idea of what some people experience in life meaning they can't necessarily do those things. Very privileged attitude.

I don't think the current benefits system will exist in 20 years. There won't be the money, or the political will to continue it. There'll be some kind of unemployment insurance that you pay into as you work, but it will be time limited, you won't be able to claim for years. And there'll be some kind of help for the severely disabled. But other than that people will be expected to work until they can afford to retire.

Why should I pay for an assumedly able-bodied person in their early 20s to stay at home with two children they have had out of choice, when there are disabled people out there struggling to turn on their heating?

you miss that 50p do you?
Thats about all you pay toward unemployment..

Sometimes it can be galling when it seems the system provides for people who make bad decisions over and over and over again. As if there are no consequences for stupidity. But even more galling is when the governments clumsy attempts to save money result in savage cuts to the NHS and schools, leaving those who least deserve it suffering or disadvantaged

The system provides for the children. They would cost way more if forced into care - which is the only viable alternative. Savage cuts to the NHS and education are not the result of the benefits bill; they are deliberate policy choices made by the current government.

Has it occurred to anyone that the people on benefits with luxury cars, clothes etc, might be topping up any benefits via criminal activity, rather than benefits?

FFS. People on benefits shouldn’t just be assumed criminal because they have something you don’t have. When my ex left me and I ended up on benefits, my mum stepped in and made sure we had what we needed - so yes, I had a half decent car she paid for and yes, a wardrobe of designer clothes because, shock horror, when I lived with my ex I could afford designer clothes and he didn’t take them with him (one of the few things he left!). There is nothing criminal about any of that.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Waxonwaxoff0

not to the same degree but yes there is some judgement there, as the planning element is still lacking.

Although at least they waited until in a stable relationship and benefit from the protections of marriage. Slightly more planning there compared to the OP.[/quote]
Benefits of marriage? What are those?

If you don't own a house... Don't have a high earning husband.. what's the difference?

Oh yeah. None. Hth.

@Jupitersmoonandstars

Imo, people benefit bash because they believe that the benefit system is unfairly advantageous for a huge number of benefit recipients, due to choices they have made.

A single parent who has chosen to have 2 children with a deadbeat father and doesnt want to work will be bashed, because the reliance on benefits is seen as preventable.

A couple who make a conscious choice to work as few hours as possible to ensure maximum benefits, or to enable one or the other of them to be a SAHP will be benefit bashed, because they are only afforded this choice through the efforts of people who do not have those choices.

A person who has tried to 'level up' as much as possible educationally and works in a job that is the limit of what they are capable of, but still needs help with their living costs so claims benefits, wont be bashed. The anger there is usually directed at the cost of living.

A disabled person who cannot work will not be bashed, because they didnt choose to put themselves in that situation.

An elderly person who receives pension credit will not be bashed, because they didnt choose to get old.

If you wake up tired, go to work in the dark, at a job you possibly dont enjoy, have to manage on a tight budget, sacrifice precious time with your children, feel stressed a lot, worry about money, deny yourself treats and live as frugally as possible and are just above the threshold for benefits, and then hear or read that another person who doesnt make the sacrifices you feel you are making, is in receipt of a higher income via benefits than you are, I imagine it is a bitter pill to swallow.

It all depends whether the benefit recipient is seen to be doing as much as they can to help themselves.
If they are, I doubt most people would benefit bash them.

I've yet to come across anyone who begrudges another person who is actively doing what they can to help themselves, but I've come across quite a few people who begrudge those who make choices that increase their dependence on the welfare state simply because they prefer the tax payer to support their choices.
Many of those tax payers will not have the choices they are simultaneously enabling someone on benefits to have.
You cannot seriously fail to understand why this would leave them angry, at the system, at the people they feel are at an advantage to them, at the injustice?
What is difficult to understand about their anger and frustration?

This is so well articulated. Another person entitled to no benefits but still hugely struggling with rising costs. I’d love another child but absolutely cannot afford it. I know you say you’ve been working full time since you were 17 but that’s what 6 years max? Most adults are expected to work for 40-50 years bar maternity leave so I think the perception of a lack of ‘putting in’ to society and a significant amount of ‘taking out’ causes bashing.

[quote Cheeseonpost]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

You don’t understand the concept of critical illness cover do you

We have comprehensive insurance that covers most of our main bills in the event of one or both of us becoming disabled or suffering injury that impedes our ability to work[/quote]
Yes, I do, I also know how expensive it is. A lot of people can't afford to pay it.

And a critical illness doesn't necessarily equal a disability. Clearly you don't understand that. Might need to check your policy again.

@MaryAndHerNet

Why should I pay for an assumedly able-bodied person in their early 20s to stay at home with two children they have had out of choice, when there are disabled people out there struggling to turn on their heating?

you miss that 50p do you?
Thats about all you pay toward unemployment..

Nope. Not a single shiny shit do I give, and I'd happily pay more (particularly if it went towards increasing the wages of the people who go after the real villains of this story, who are the tax-avoiding high earners).

I'd literally do a happy wee dance if I got taxed more to help people pay for childcare, or get a better education, or even costs for transport.

Wow you get more on UC and maternity than I do as a lawyer. I'm pregnant and will only get shitty statutory maternity. I have a partner who works so we're entitled to nothing, will barely be able to afford to live and I'll have to go back to work early. Probably won't be able to afford a second baby. To me it feels like others don't consider what they can afford they just "do" then rely on the state.