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Have the wheels come off St.jacinda of NZ

321 replies

Radyward · 14/02/2022 23:43

What!!! spraying protesters including women and childrem with water outside parliament Classing all protestors as loony anti vaxers.no sign of liftimg restrictions ' quite the opposite. Polls plummeting. She is completely nightmarish tho 53 deaths is amazing. Nz is now so woke no one with any brain or indepent thought will go there to holiday / work. She is on a power trip to end all. Poor kiwis

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 15/02/2022 16:53

🚬 Freedom 🚬

Yeahthat · 15/02/2022 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

labyrinthlaziness · 15/02/2022 17:23

If you're so afraid of dying, stay home permanently. I'm happy to live in a free society and to accept the inherent risks that that entails.

Oh ffs, embarrassing. Yes, those of us who have any public health concerns are just terrified of dying.

Biscuit
labyrinthlaziness · 15/02/2022 17:25

We live in a democratic society in which the people should be free to decide to what extent they're willing to accept government intervention in their lives.

I agree with this.

The government is currently imposing a minority (17% public support) view on the majority. Funny how the FrEEdoM lOvErs never mind when their minority views are being forced on the (sane) majority.

CheekyHobson · 15/02/2022 17:26

No, you just suggested that as I chose to live outside NZ, I got what I deserved.

I didn't say any such thing. My perspective would be that as you live outside New Zealand, you might expect that returning suddenly during a global crisis may involve challenges.

Both capacity and efficiency could have been increased by purpose building an MIQ facility that could later have been used for emergency housing. Efficiency and transparency could have been improved by having a queue, rather than a lottery.
It would take the best part of a year to build a facility of the size and technical capacity required. Obviously initially a wait-and-see approach was required as it wasn't obvious how long the pandemic was going to last. If they'd started building it in, say December 2020, it would only just be ready recently – at a point where MIQ is being wound up anyway.

And they did try a queue system and people hated it so they changed to the lottery.

Yes, my field is that specialised. Does that bother you?
No, just the drama of suggesting you were virtually forced to leave the country in order to make a living and it's terribly unfair that you can't come back whenever you want now.

I didn't say I'd paid tax to woe is me, though--just to point out I had maintained ties with, and done the morally right thing by, NZ (unlike many who structure their finances to not contribute).

Again, not a woe is me, but a demonstration I've done the right thing by NZ because it is the right thing to do. Is this an alien concept to you?

No, the concept isn't alien to me. I just don't see why you seem to think paying tax on income and repaying a loan you chose to take out the same way you'd be expected to do anywhere in the world has anything at all to do with citizenship entitlements. If you took out a loan or became a landlord in a country you're not a citizen of you'd be expected to pay tax or pay it that back too.

One visit in 3 years.
Borders closed in March 2020 so it has not actually even been 2 years. I'm sure that was just an honest mistake and not an attempt to exaggerate your situation though.

And if I had wanted to come back in the past 10 months? People in Australia were not even eligible to apply for MIQ, except under emergency circumstances. That is neither reasonable nor proportionate, which as outlined above, probably makes it illegal.
10 months? The travel bubble ended in August so do you mean seven months tops? At a time where a variant suddenly emerged that was immensely transmissible with the potential to cause widespread death and data needed to be gathered to assess risk? Yeah good luck with the 'not proportionate' argument.

As it stands, I have had the good fortune to maintain and improve my employment situation, but that hasn't been the same for all kiwis. While things were insecure, I applied for several University jobs in NZ (my sector having grown a bit), but was given the feedback that they were not even interviewing even citizens outside the country, because they needed some assurance that the people they employed would be able to begin work in a reasonable timeframe. For clarity, the typical notice period for academic staff in Universities is 3-6 MONTHS. They had genuine reason to believe that citizens overseas would not be able to return in this timeframe.
So in short no actual emergency occurred but maybe hypothetically could have and you're cross about it?

Like my colleague who watched his Dad die on Zoom you mean? There are hundreds of stories like this.
And there would have been thousands of people doing exactly that if Covid had gotten loose in NZ, which is what MIQ was designed to mitigate. I'm sorry your colleague wasn't there with his Dad, I really am, but you have to be honest that if you live overseas, there is always a risk of a family member dying at short notice and you not being able to be there. It is part and parcel of choosing to live overseas.

Yeah, legally they also have a responsibility to me and my family, should we wish to enjoy those same protections, but again, I guess that's inconvenient.
If you actually needed protections, they would be available to you but you are not talking about protections but a lack of convenient access and unfortunately in a global crisis, convenience is the first thing to go.

to shrug off what the rest of the team of 6 million have had to deal with "because we chose to live outside New Zealand" is callous at best, and xenophobic, jealous and heartless at worst.
What you personally have "had to deal with" is not being able to come back to visit with complete freedom and flexibility and yes I sympathise to a degree with the frustration there, but you have not been genuinely denied any rights or protections. I find it so annoying when people act like the extraordinary saving of lives and livelihoods the government has achieved has not been worth the relatively minor hardship of limiting free travel.

I sympathise more with people like your colleague who was not able to travel back suddenly. But It's. A. Pandemic. Not everybody's distressing situations can be prevented. It sucks. I know. In a little over a month it will be over as borders will be open again. Two years is not a lifetime.

Yeahthat · 15/02/2022 17:48

@Tealightsandd

Like your attempt to be poetic in which you ended up depicting yourself as a farm animal, with the government as your owner (apparently believing that this was a clever argument in favour of overarching covid restrictions), you're wide of the mark again.

Criticisms of covid restrictions have centred on them being government overreach which violate fundamental rights to an unacceptable degree.

Being obliged to smoke outside out of a pub instead of inside isn't, in my opinion, comparable.

There's not a binary choice between overarching government control and total libertarianism. We live in a democratic society in which the people should be free to decide to what extent they're willing to accept government intervention in their lives.

Yeahthat · 15/02/2022 17:56

@labyrinthlaziness

We live in a democratic society in which the people should be free to decide to what extent they're willing to accept government intervention in their lives.

I agree with this.

The government is currently imposing a minority (17% public support) view on the majority. Funny how the FrEEdoM lOvErs never mind when their minority views are being forced on the (sane) majority.

@labyrinthlaziness

Oh, you've done the alternating caps thing. I don't know if I want to debate such a devastating and original wit.

You have a rather perverse definition of freedom - apparently you believe yours is being violated because the government will no longer exercise unprecedented restrictions and control over fellow citizens, often implemented by decree. Your definition of freedom seems to rest on others having their rights restricted.

You're free to go on living under any restrictions that you see fit. If you're disappointed that lockdown has ended, stay in.

Another reason that I was so pleased to see restrictions being removed was knowing that people like yourself would be seething GrinWink

MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2022 18:10

yeahthat silver lining ; but agree with this

You have a rather perverse definition of freedom - apparently you believe yours is being violated because the government will no longer exercise unprecedented restrictions and control over fellow citizens, often implemented by decree. Your definition of freedom seems to rest on others having their rights restricted.

And if people do want them, this..

You're free to go on living under any restrictions that you see fit. If you're disappointed that lockdown has ended, stay in.

labyrinthlaziness · 15/02/2022 18:21

@Yeahthat

I'm not seething and I am personally low risk. When you say 'people like you' - people like who?

My view is it is the wrong thing to do. It is statistically very unlikely to be me this decision kills, but it is still the wrong thing to do.

DryOldCaper · 15/02/2022 18:22

Aaaand another shout-out to @Radyward who hasn’t returned to the thread they started.

CheekyHobson · 15/02/2022 18:47

Incidentally, @CallItLoneliness, in the two years preceding the pandemic, the number of times I was able to afford to travel to Australia with my family to visit immediate blood relatives was... once.

If you have the ability to travel between countries 2-3 times every year under normal circumstances, then you are coming from a place of relative privilege. I don't resent that – good for you – but what you experience as a terrible hardship (being able to travel once in two years) is what many people experience as 'ordinary life circumstances'.

Radyward · 15/02/2022 18:48

I typed this in bed last night without my specs hence the typos.
After 2 yrs in a pandemic keeping restrictions going longer than is necessary feels powertrippy. Thats why Trudeau and Ardern are under fire. It fits their narrative to cast all protesters as loony anti vaxxers when a significant number are anti mandate. Mandates which are being unceremoniously dumped in other countries. Why continue it -why pursue it when over 90% vaxxed. It just feels power and control under the umbrella of omicron
Keep that fear going. Keep it ramped up .

We all lost freedoms which are being restored BUT pursuing vaccination of kids and excluding kids who arent from sporting events is another kind of sick .like what planet is she on
.oh follow the science well kids fare very well without vaccination with covid. Parents must be at their wits end in NZ Keeping up the fear is a joke and she is the ultimate purveyor of that.
Be kind is her mantra when she is the exact opposite of that .
As for my woke thing
She is the ultimate political correctness . Talks alot. Says nothing. Anyones other opinion not tolerated and cast as crazies when some are actually in dire straits with genuine concerns..
The ultimate Dodger of questions- Smiling mother of the nation turning the screw. Like when is normal going to be in NZ ??when will it be right. She maintains there will be no back to life before covid. Omg terrible .
Media comtrol at its best. If you arent with us you are against.

We are all equal but some more equal than others ie the vaccinated. I find her horrifically creepy .53 deaths at what cost nuts . She is undemocratic and power crazed . So many in NZ have enjoyed their bubble of normality for 2 yrs good for them. Thats fab but comparing 5 million to 60 million is daft. Comparing an island nation miles from anywhere with the uk is daft . Her covid fatalities is freakin amazing but that lovely bubble has to end .she must be terrified to fully open and lose all powers thats the corner she has backed herself into. Interesting times ahead for the NZ poster girl

OP posts:
DryOldCaper · 15/02/2022 18:54

Parents must be at their wits end in NZ

Sorry, why should we be?

My kids are at school, at sports training, playing sports and doing all their usual extra-curricula activities.

Radyward · 15/02/2022 18:57

Because she has made it nigh on compulsory to vaccinate them or their lives will be rubbish or am i wrong on that ?? Vaccinate them or they wont be doin a team sport sounds like smiling coercion to me

OP posts:
DryOldCaper · 15/02/2022 19:00

But more than 90% of the population are fine with that.

90%+ vaccinated and the sky hasn’t fallen on our heads…

TacCat49 · 15/02/2022 19:09

I still don't understand your post Radyward. You obviously dislike Jacinda and that's fine you are allowed but please don't try and push your views onto others. Jacinda doesn't make these decisions on her own. She gets advice from
business leaders, health department, technical advisory group (health people), epidemiologists etc etc.

iloathhousework · 15/02/2022 19:18

@Radyward
You seem overly concerned about a country that is nearly 19,000kms away from you. What happens in NZ doesn’t affect you in anyway so I fail to see the purpose of this thread other than to stir.

If you’re really concerned about freedoms and human rights why don’t you start a thread (or at least look at) Austria’s mandatory vaccination policy.

CheekyHobson · 15/02/2022 19:30

keeping restrictions going longer than is necessary feels powertrippy.
Restrictions are still necessary to control spread in a country that is only just entering the endemic phase.

cast all protesters as loony anti vaxxers when a significant number are anti mandate.
You've provided no proof she is doing this, but equally the majority of NZers do regard 'anti-mandate' protestors as being a fringe group.

Mandates which are being unceremoniously dumped in other countries.
Countries that are at a completely different phase of the pandemic.

pursuing vaccination of kids and excluding kids who arent from sporting events is another kind of sick.
This would only be the small number of kids 12+ who aren't vaccinated and for a limited time? Kids under 12 are subject to no vaccination restrictions.

Parents must be at their wits end in NZ
I personally am extremely appreciative.

She is the ultimate political correctness . Talks alot. Says nothing.
Did she take lessons from you?

Anyones other opinion not tolerated and cast as crazies when some are actually in dire straits with genuine concerns.
Give some examples of 'actual dire straits' then rather than just ranting about unfairness, power trips and fear-mongering.

Like when is normal going to be in NZ ?
Hang on, let me get my crystal ball out. Oh. I can't seem to find it. Do you have one? Maybe Jacinda has one. Or maybe nobody has one and pandemic responses are developed in real time in response to actual events rather than by a magical ability to predict the future.

She maintains there will be no back to life before covid. Omg terrible .
What she means is that Covid now exists and will always have to be given some consideration in exactly the same way as severe outbreaks of flu and measles are always given consideration.

Media comtrol at its best. If you arent with us you are against.
We are all equal but some more equal than others ie the vaccinated. I find her horrifically creepy .53 deaths at what cost nuts . She is undemocratic and power crazed.

Okay, having a totally normal one here.

So many in NZ have enjoyed their bubble of normality for 2 yrs good for them.
It was, thanks.

Thats fab but comparing 5 million to 60 million is daft.
Nobody is doing that except you. Likewise insisting that the response for a population of 60 million is the right one for a population of 5 million is daft.

Her covid fatalities is freakin amazing but that lovely bubble has to end
Yes, the border restrictions will be eased starting in 11 days on Feb 27 and completely coming off by March 13, ie in 29 days, is that prompt enough for you?

she must be terrified to fully open and lose all powers thats the corner she has backed herself into.
Let's see in 29 days then.

DryOldCaper · 15/02/2022 20:02

@Radyward - are you a name-changer?

Your posts have the exact same hint of hysteria as another poster with a bee in their bonnet about Jacinda Adern and NZ’s approach to the pandemic.

The more Kiwis didn’t have The Fear whipped into them by that poster’s increasingly hysterical rantings, the more hysterical - and ‘Armageddon is nigh’ - that poster got.

It will be amusing to see if you take the same approach. Smile

Radyward · 15/02/2022 20:43

No no name change at all. I have no issue with correction of inaccuracys on my part. I have a great interest in current affairs. Why not have a discussion on this ? Do you have to be a kiwi to comment ??

29 days . Hopefully they will stay open .#casessurge the borders could be slammed shut -need to reintroduce restrictions and it goes on and on and on and on. Moving goalposts is the action of nearly every govt on covid 19.its puzzling omicron is much less virulent why the masks / vaxx mandates/ one month to opening up ???

OP posts:
EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 20:50

@DryOldCaper

But more than 90% of the population are fine with that.

90%+ vaccinated and the sky hasn’t fallen on our heads…

I'm not sure I follow

I am vaccinated and of course the sky hasn't fallen

I think being vaccinated should not involve coercion. And if it's true you can get into NZ because of wealth or work, of course it's not okay to prevent people seeing relatives.

EmmaH2022 · 15/02/2022 20:53

[quote iloathhousework]@Radyward
You seem overly concerned about a country that is nearly 19,000kms away from you. What happens in NZ doesn’t affect you in anyway so I fail to see the purpose of this thread other than to stir.

If you’re really concerned about freedoms and human rights why don’t you start a thread (or at least look at) Austria’s mandatory vaccination policy.[/quote]
I tend to keep away from these threads but I am very concerned about policies worldwide and glad to be in England.

CheekyHobson · 15/02/2022 20:59

29 days. Hopefully they will stay open.#casessurge the borders could be slammed shut -need to reintroduce restrictions and it goes on and on and on and on.
Is this pandemic fan fiction or what? You've been told that the closed borders you're upset about are being opened so you've immediately moved on to speculating about the so-far unraised possibility they might be closed again.

Moving goalposts is the action of nearly every govt on covid 19.
No. The goalposts have always been the same. Minimise deaths and economic losses. The strategies to achieve this goal have changed frequently in response to changes in the spread/transmissability/severity of the virus. In a rapidly changing situation, all tactics are short-term tactics. In a slowly changing situation, tactics can be longer term.

its puzzling omicron is much less virulent why the masks / vaxx mandates/ one month to opening up ???
Because Omicron can still cause death and severe illness. If Omicron causes 1/10 of the deaths per infection of Delta but infects 10x as many people, it still causes exactly the same number of deaths.

StartupRepair · 16/02/2022 01:54

Harvard has chosen Ardern to give their commencement speech this year. She is the 8th Head of State ever to be invited. Huge honour.

TacCat49 · 16/02/2022 02:07

Radyward.... would your over reaction to the female prime minister of NZ be the same if our Prime Minister was a male??