To think mother in law shouldn’t make us feel guilty?

[Wedonttalkaboutbruno1]

DH has been offered a job abroad. It’s a great job and he’s taking it and it’s really positive for us. We have 2 DC. MIL lives 20 mins away from us at the moment and she’s a widow. She’s devastated we’re leaving.

If DH hadn’t been offered this job, we’d still have moved away from the city we’re in as it’s too expensive. But abroad is obviously a lot further!

My family are sad to see us go, but excited for us and are sending us with their blessings.

MIL has done a lot of crying to DH, making him (well, me really!) feel guilty and saying that she’s being left all alone (her other child lives abroad too).

I think that’s a choice: if she wanted to live near one of her children and grandchildren, she could move to be near one of them. She can well afford it.

I’m getting a lot of emotional manipulation from her now: the move will be unsettling for the kids, it’s not good for them to grow up far away from her, she won’t get to have a good relationship with them, etc.

I get that it’s sad for her and I know I would be upset if my children didn’t live in the same country as me, but I feel a bit fed up that she’s being so emotionally manipulative.

AIBU?

I said this on another, similar thread a few weeks ago. What is the point of educating and encouraging my children, to the point that the world is their oyster, if I’m going to begrudge them taking advantage of that fact? Emotional manipulation isn’t love, it’s emotional manipulation.

@Wedonttalkaboutbruno1

And when your children are grown and tell you they are moving far away, when you are widowed and alone, you will think of her ,all those years before , and then you will understand. I absolutely do fear this. Perhaps if she were my mother I would feel a different sense of duty but she isn’t and I’m not overly fond of her (as you can probably tell! She is incredibly negative - this situation aside). DH was never close to her, so doesn’t feel inclined to stay for her. It’s really sad. I do feel very sorry for her, more so after reading everyone’s replies.

It’s not about ‘feeling a sense of duty’.....it’s about love....I adore my Mum.....I could never ever leave her all alone and have taken her Grandchildren away from her.....but I get she’s not your Mum so you won’t feel the same.....and if your DH doesn’t have a close bond then he won’t feel the same as me about leaving.

What are the plans for when she needs extra help and can’t travel? I’m assuming she can afford to buy in help

Would she be able to move to the country you are moving to, would there be issues with visa, paying for healthcare?

I found it hard enough when DF was ill with terminal cancer and he only lived 2 hours away. Not sure I would have coped if he had been in another country.

I think ultimately you have to do what you need to do for your family but you can’t expect her to feel pleased about it. I think you’re massively underestimating how hard it would be to move abroad in your 70s but also be dependent on your children. She could go and make a life in x country and follow you but what if you decide to come home? What if she struggles to meet new people and is totally dependent on you? What if she’s unable to access state healthcare etc? I would be prepared to move to be closer to children within this country when I’m older but i wouldn’t take the risk of doing it abroad.

Your life comes first, the rest is secondary IMO.

I had an opportunity to work abroad and so we were at the point of emigrating. My BIL moved away 20 years ago and MIL was fine with that but started to throw the kitchen sink at my wife when she told her we were also moving away. It was horrible.

I understand the upset but we teach our kids to make their mark on the world. It'll kill me when they eventually leave but isn't it our jobs to prepare them for the outside world? What's the point if we're going to tie them to us forever?

@Bunnycat101

I think ultimately you have to do what you need to do for your family but you can’t expect her to feel pleased about it. I think you’re massively underestimating how hard it would be to move abroad in your 70s but also be dependent on your children. She could go and make a life in x country and follow you but what if you decide to come home? What if she struggles to meet new people and is totally dependent on you? What if she’s unable to access state healthcare etc? I would be prepared to move to be closer to children within this country when I’m older but i wouldn’t take the risk of doing it abroad.

What if she moves with you and then her son dies? Then she will be in a foreign country with a DIL who will move on with her life in time and grandchildren who will follow the lead of their mother . Hell of a risk to take at her age. Don't underestimate how difficult a position she is in.

I can understand why she's feeling so upset but ultimately it's your choice where you move to. I'd be really upset too though.
How far away are you moving? Is it a relatively quick 2 hour flight or somewhere much further?

You are absolutely right to make the move you want to, but you are being a bit unreasonable re MIL - if both her kids are now abroad she probably is pretty devastated, it’s only human. Obviously if she’s being OTT then that’s irritating, but just grey rock it, and leave your DH to manage himself - you’ll be gone soon enough!

The thing I have always kept in my mind, regarding my parents, is that my children will watch how I treat them as they age and, when my time comes to need help/care/ practical support, they will take their lead from what they saw me do. You and your husband don't really care much about her at all do you ? You have already made your decision and this period, before you can get away from her, is just....annoying. You may think that your relationship with your children will always be perfect and rosy and close, but the behaviour they are observing now, gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want in the future , without a backward glance at you. It will take years , but one day you will reap what you have sown. Be careful what seeds you plant.

Meh. I don't blame your DH for taking the job - we all do what we think is best for us and our family.

but poor MIL with her 2 children far away and she's a widow. She must worry about that situation, and it's not unreasonable for her to say that to her own son.

Bloody hell, of course she is feeling bereft!

Of course you need to do what’s right for your family and it’s great that you have this opportunity but a bit of sensitivity and empathy wouldn’t go amiss!

It's difficult. I understand her anxiety. I also live abroad and I left my widowed mum. But my brother lives near her. If I'm honest I probably wouldn't have gone if she was by herself

Could she also move to near you will be moving?

That would solve a lot of issues

Go. Make arrangements for her to visit and FaceTime etc. Give her a plan to keep in touch then ignore it all

I’m always amazed by how little care and consideration there is for older people, particularly older women, on this forum. Of course not all parents earn the love and respect of their children, and there are daily horror stories of genuinely problematic mothers and mothers in law which are played out here. But in general, despite being parents themselves, the majority of posters seem to write off older women as people and show the scantest of empathy.

We will all age and become less useful to our families, but I hope they don’t value us less because we are older and less useful.

This woman clearly has not done the best job of parenting, but as adults, she and her son seem to have built a decent relationship. She is now facing her 70s and 80s with no family in the same country in which she lives; she will not see her grandchildren growing up; and she will be at the mercy of public services when she is infirm, or if she loses her mental capacity. This will be pretty terrifying, knowing there will be nobody there to advocate for her when she can’t do it for herself.

I don’t believe that the OP’s husband should change his plan. But I think a great deal more understanding is in order, perhaps a realistic conversation about power of attorney, what she does and doesn’t want to happen when she is older, might provide her with some reassurance and show her that he has thought about what this means for her and her future. She will be lonely when you all go, of course, but you can stop her also being scared.

She’s not ‘making’ you feel guilty. You feel guilty in response to her reaction to her losing her family!
I would be absolutely devastated if either of my now-adult children decided to life in another country. And I would tell them how I felt. Because that’s being honest. It’s all well and good to say she could easily go and visit, but it’s just not that straightforward. Flying over once a year is nothing like popping round for a brew at the weekend, or having the grandchildren for a sleepover whenever they fancy it.
You’re entitled to live wherever you want, and grandparents are entitled to feel gutted!

She can have a perfectly lively relationship with her grandchildren even if they live abroad. My parents moved abroad 40 years ago and I went to High School there. I came back and worked here and met my DH and had kids here. They have therefore never lived in the same country and were brought up pre face time and zoom and still manage to have a great and loving relationship. Yes it won't be exactly the same but not impossible and indeed may sometimes be better because you see aside time for the relationship.

@Lunar27

Your life comes first, the rest is secondary IMO.

I had an opportunity to work abroad and so we were at the point of emigrating. My BIL moved away 20 years ago and MIL was fine with that but started to throw the kitchen sink at my wife when she told her we were also moving away. It was horrible.

I understand the upset but we teach our kids to make their mark on the world. It'll kill me when they eventually leave but isn't it our jobs to prepare them for the outside world? What's the point if we're going to tie them to us forever?

What a weird post! Your life comes first, the rest is secondary Are your parents NOT part of your life? Do you not care about them? The people who actually GAVE you life?

It’ll kill me when they eventually leave
That’s what’s happening here. It’s killing the mother because her child and grandchildren are leaving.

whats the point if we’re going to tie them to us forever
Isn’t this the very definition of family? That you ARE tied to each other forever?
We all want what’s best for our children, and in rare cases that may be to live in a different country, but I’d hope that ultimately what is best for our children would be to have an extended family who look out for each other, who provide emotional and physical support, who are there for each other.

@SeasonFinale

She can have a perfectly lively relationship with her grandchildren even if they live abroad. My parents moved abroad 40 years ago and I went to High School there. I came back and worked here and met my DH and had kids here. They have therefore never lived in the same country and were brought up pre face time and zoom and still manage to have a great and loving relationship. Yes it won't be exactly the same but not impossible and indeed may sometimes be better because you see aside time for the relationship.

I think it’s very different if you had children after you moved countries. I remember my MIL saying she just didn’t have any real relationship with her grandchildren who were born on the other side of the world, because she hardly ever saw them, cuddled them, took care of them. Yes, she spoke to them regularly when they were younger, sent them cards and presents, even spent extended time over there when she could. But she said it just wasn’t the same. My MIL was terminally ill for the last few months of her life. My BIL knew this, but didn’t bother to come and visit despite being able to afford to and having the time to. In one message to my dh he even said she won’t know who I am so it’s pointless coming over, I may as well just wait til she’s died. Her grandsons showed no interest in her illness. When she died, my DD, (her granddaughter) was very sad and upset. She even gave a short eulogy at her funeral. Her now adult grandsons couldn’t even be bothered to acknowledge her death or send flowers. At least my BIL turned up - the day before her funeral - and questioned all the arrangements for the funeral plus insisted on giving the eulogy because he was the older son! (He also wanted to share out her jewellery the day after the funeral, saying she’d promised her engagement and eternity ring to his wife and promptly took them!!!)

@soontobe60 just because your BIL and nephews abroad chose not to have a relationship with your MIL doesn't mean every other family does this.

The fact that OP says her MIL travels abroad and stays for a month at a time at the other adult child's suggests she would be able to do the same. That may actually mean she spends more actual time than with the GC than she does now.

I think it’s very different if you had children after you moved countries.

Absolutely. If your relationship with you GCs has always been through a screen, that's what you accept and all you expect.
If you know what it is to cuddle your DHCs from newborns, have done childcare/babysitting, play with them, rough and tumble with them and have them sit on your lap for a story, having only a remote relationship would be a huge loss.

I think there are an awful lot of parents/grandparents putting a hugely brave face on when they talk to their families who've chosen to live and work abroad. I have a friend who moved to the US who thinks her mum is fine with it and was just excited for her when she left. I know differently.

Well it is just as well that my mum does choose to come back here to visit and cuddle her grandchildren when they were small enough to be cuddled and go to major life events and we choose to go there to visit. They spend more actual time with her than MIL who lives over here and chooses to do the odd day trip to see them.

@SeasonFinale what will happen when your parents are too old to travel/one dies?

@SeasonFinale

She can have a perfectly lively relationship with her grandchildren even if they live abroad. My parents moved abroad 40 years ago and I went to High School there. I came back and worked here and met my DH and had kids here. They have therefore never lived in the same country and were brought up pre face time and zoom and still manage to have a great and loving relationship. Yes it won't be exactly the same but not impossible and indeed may sometimes be better because you see aside time for the relationship.

The thing is that your children have never lived in the same country as their grandparents. Your parents and your children have only ever known your way of doing it. The Ops MIL has had her son and grandchildren close by. She has seen them in the flesh and hugged them. She will not be able to that once they have gone. She will adjust, but it will still be very painful.

@Soontobe60. Not weird at all IMO but appreciate different perspectives. My MIL didn't bat an eyelid when BIL emigrated so it is total double standards to throw the emotional kitchen sink at my wife for wanting to do the same.

Sure it'd hurt to see my kids flying the nest but they have to live their lives and fulfill their dreams without my preferences getting in the way. My life isn't theirs and women haven't got this far for their father to suddenly control where they live and constrain their choices.

Family is important for sure but IMO it's not healthy to impose on people in order to satisfy personal agendas.

It partly depends where OP will be going. I live on mainland Europe and my offspring were born here. They have a good relationship with my parents because we spent holidays with them once a year or so, and my parents (mostly mum) came to visit us. They also spent 2 weeks or so of the long summer hols over with my parents due to lack of childcare etc.

They are all very close. It doesn't work that way for everyone, and it is very painful for my now elderly widowed mum, especially right now. I grew up moving around various countries, and my mum gets that and wouldn't have it any other way if i didn't want it. But it is still hard and I think PP was right in that the attitude to elderly women here is appalling at times.

And PP made a very good point about establishing things like power of attourney, medical and legal, and being very clear about what MIL wants to happen if/when certain scenarios arise. Including mental incapacity, inability to live alone, sudden death, terminal illness. You (or rather your DH)need to talk about them now - preferably including BIL. And if he can't be bothered (BIL or DH) then you need to find someone trustworthy that can take over POA (medical and legal) for MIL so that she isn't completely left alone.