How Many Women WFH are Actually Going Back?

[Lunar27]

Reading the NAMALT thread is depressing as a man but unsurprising, given the lived experience of my wife and stuff I've read elsewhere.

For those currently WFH, AIBU to wonder how many will choose to stay at home to avoid the BS of having to physically share office space with men?

I ask as I recently read an article about WFH and how offices post covid could turn into straight white male spaces. The rationale is that minorities (whether ethnic or sex/gender) generally don't have a great time so many will opt to stay at home. If women do the same (to avoid harassment) then the only group left will be straight white males. This could then set back years of progress as we'd be back to straight white males running things (oh joy).

A doom/gloom prediction perhaps but would be interesting to know if male behaviour will form part of the decision making process.

I'm British but of Chinese origin and am not really looking to go back, bar 1-2 days/week. Fortunately my colleagues are ok so is down to personal preference.

@User0458832

Do men do all these chores like sorting washing and dusting while in a quick break wfh.

Mine certainly doesn’t. I do but he sits and does a puzzle or something similarly useless on the basis that he’s having a break. I’ve given up.

@User0458832

Do men do all these chores like sorting washing and dusting while in a quick break wfh.

Yeah. DP does the top-up shops in lunch breaks, or in unofficial work breaks he’ll load/unload the dishwasher, take the recycling out, do odd jobs. None of us need to physically stare at our screens for 7-8 hours a day; you wouldn’t in the office either.

I'm retraining into IT, which is a very male-dominated but also WFH heavy industry. My dad is in IT too, and his Zoom meetings are full of 60+ yo men with cats on their laps.

It's an industry where you have to walk the walk, really - different opinions on how to solve problems, but really the solution is king. Doing the work correctly and quickly is what gets you the big bucks. That and to a certain extent, having social skills.

It's no coincidence that IT stereotypes have a lack of social skills, and there women, in my experience, have an edge when it comes to customer handling. The IT Crowd is not a million miles from the truth

So in my sector WFH isn't a disadvantage at all.

@User0458832

Do men do all these chores like sorting washing and dusting while in a quick break wfh.

Mine does.

My dad is in IT too, and his Zoom meetings are full of 60+ yo men with cats on their laps.

Visions of Blofeld from James Bond !

I’m permanently remote now but it’s because I hate the commute and the early starts to make the commute less hideous. Nothing to do with men.

Yeah. DP does the top-up shops in lunch breaks, or in unofficial work breaks he’ll load/unload the dishwasher, take the recycling out, do odd jobs. None of us need to physically stare at our screens for 7-8 hours a day; you wouldn’t in the office either.

Oh, I didn't mean that people shouldn't have breaks, just that if DH had a break, he wouldn't instinctively think to flick a duster round or do housework, he would do something like relax and research his hobbies or something like that, I would have to give him a list of what to do if house stuff needed doing like I do now anyway, he wouldn't think oh goody I'm at home I can vacuum the house in my lunch break

I think the OP raises a valid point about how the desire to go back to an office may vary according to gender, and perhaps ethnicity.

Where I do think the white male observation may be very valid is where there has been a desire to get everyone back to offices, even though many could work from home at least the majority of the time successfully. The financial sector in the City of London and Canary Wharf being one.

OP why do you refer to women as a minority? They make up 51% of the population.

I also suspect that it will mean many women working at home taking the opportunity to do housework and school drop offs etc while their husbands go to the office all day. For many this will mean working in the evenings to catch up.

Somehow that doesn't feel like progress to me

@FinallySomeNormality

I'll be working in office 2 days a week max. Not keeping away to avoid sharing space with men or avoiding harassment from men... but WFH is just much better for me in terms of balancing working and being a mother. Working in the office for me equates to leaving the house often before kids are awake and rushing home to try to make it to pick up time at nursery and after school club before it closes. It's just stressful and makes life feel like a huge juggle.

WFH means I can be there for the kids before school and don't have the same stresses of leaving at a certain time to avoid traffic etc. it's less reliance on childcare and much easier to collect kids if they are sick etc during the day.

I think many women will find this.

It's just a bit depressing that women are finding this. Where are all the men who want to be there for their kids in the mornings or after school?

Hybrid working could offer real opportunities for men and women to really share the domestic burden more fairly between them, but somehow, it seems as if women are the ones who are going to be pushed into the wfh roles while the men go back to the office and further their careers.

Why do so many women allow this to happen?

I am now permanently based at home. But this is ideal for me. Hate the open plan office

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

OP why do you refer to women as a minority? They make up 51% of the population.

Doh, quite unintentional, apologies! I should have been more clear in separating minorities, like myself, and women

Although there is some solidarity in the fact that we're all (to varying degrees) not the default in many aspects of work.

I’m back in The office 4 days a week - I feel if I’m not I will get left behind in terms of promotions etc. tbf - I actually like going to the office, makes a big difference to my state of mind.

To be fair @AlexaShutUp this site is predominantly used by women so you’re not going to hear from all the men who want to be there for their kids. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist and posters on MN saying why it suits them doesn’t mean women are going to be “pushed” into wfh.

@thecatsthecats

I'm retraining into IT, which is a very male-dominated but also WFH heavy industry. My dad is in IT too, and his Zoom meetings are full of 60+ yo men with cats on their laps.

It's an industry where you have to walk the walk, really - different opinions on how to solve problems, but really the solution is king. Doing the work correctly and quickly is what gets you the big bucks. That and to a certain extent, having social skills.

It's no coincidence that IT stereotypes have a lack of social skills, and there women, in my experience, have an edge when it comes to customer handling. The IT Crowd is not a million miles from the truth

So in my sector WFH isn't a disadvantage at all.

This is my.OH I'm so jealous

@WhatsMyNameGonnaBeNow

To be fair *@AlexaShutUp this site is predominantly used by women so you’re not going to hear from all the men who want to be there for their kids*. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist and posters on MN saying why it suits them doesn’t mean women are going to be “pushed” into wfh.

I'm just querying why people are saying that women will find it easier to balance work and kids etc. Why not say "parents"?

I'm just querying why people are saying that women will find it easier to balance work and kids etc. Why not say "parents"?

Probably because in reality we all know that the majority of child and home responsibilities have fallen on womens shoulders for decades, even when the woman also works FT. It’s grossly unfair but true long before Covid and widespread wfh in the last couple of years.

I certainly hope it becomes “parents” instead of women and I agree with you that hybrid working could (should!) mean a much more even split in domestic responsibilities.

At the very least all those I do the majority of house work/childcare because DH works 14 hour days in a very stressful job posters must surely have had theirs eyes opened during lockdown and realise his job isn’t that stressful and doesn’t take 14 hours per day!

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

OP why do you refer to women as a minority? They make up 51% of the population.

You wouldn't think so from the way society is run ...

Well, yes, that was my point. If a man in the workplace views the women in his workplace as a minority then there is something to be highlighted there.

There is not greater proof the Men's Rights Movement is full of shit they the lack of action from them today.

Employees have never been in a better bargaining position to demand a better work-life balance. Employers are clamoring for personnel, wages are steadily raising and the labor conditions are improving.

Yet when it comes to the push to have more days WFH and to have greater flexibility as employees, so they can be there for their kids, it's nothing but the sound of crickets. Crickets!

If men really cared about being better fathers and to spend more time with their kids, they'd seize this opportunity and push for more WFH as well, instead of demanding everyone come back to the office and pointing the finger at women and accusing them of not being dedicated to their jobs enough.

Men, stop blaming women for prioritizing kids and put your efforts and labor where you mouth is!

@stuntbubbles

You also have to think of other possible factors that may mean being in the office is useful. Free stationery, frequent birthday cakes. I’ve made my peace with the trade-off of buying my own highlighters and Colin the Caterpillars in exchange for never having to commute again.

If you're going to quote me then have the courtesy to quote my whole post. It was in relation to possible benefits to a career path, not free stationery

I have not had or witnessed awful experiences in my working life; occasionally some inappropriate comments, and not exclusively from men.

I continue to wfh, so is most of my team; pur job is international; team is skilled; most things work just as well from home. As a FT manager and mum of 2, if the management were all back in the office, yes I'd go too. I think too many F2F decisions would get taken without me. Luckily all the men want to wfh too. Guess what, decent men also want to spend time with their family and help do the housework in their breaks from work.

I think in trying to be an ally of women, you're being sexist and racist assuming that white men are just going to slink off back to the office to recreate a microcosm of the 1970s for themselves. I literally don't know any man that wants this. I know a larger and larger number of "straight white men" who actively enjoy being at home with family, don't want to work in a highly sexualised workplace, and are benefiting from the changes in society as much as everyone else.

At the moment, we are being asked to do a min of 2 days/week in the office. My boss is telling us she only expects us those 2 days (and she herself only intends to do 2 days where possible).

I have not missed the commute and have been very productive at home. I need to bring my work device in and out now if doing mixed home/office.

So I think I will likely do the 2 days but keep to 3 days at home for the moment.