Sir Mark Todd - where’s the outrage? Animal cruelty

[ConasAtaTu1]

Just watched a disgusting video of this man whipping a clearly terrified horse ten times to get it to go into water. Cowardly running back each time so the horse couldn’t kick him to rightfully defend itself from the beating. Total scum.

I hope he will get similar fines/outrage/RSPCA investigations as ongoing for Kurt Zouma.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10505319/Sir-Mark-Todd-caught-whipping-horse-branch-TEN-times-make-water-obstacle.html

@RoscoeConklin

I wouldn't defer to someone who hits animals because they have been in an area of expertise longer than me and therefore must know better. But then, I fortunately had parents who ingrained in me at a very young age that you never hit animals.

If having a glittering career in dressage means keeping quiet about animal abuse, then I would consider it a career not worth having.

A 2 year old video- so this happened after Olly Townend lost sponsors for flogging his horses round Badminton.

[quote Prescottdanni123]@RoscoeConklin

I wouldn't defer to someone who hits animals because they have been in an area of expertise longer than me and therefore must know better. But then, I fortunately had parents who ingrained in me at a very young age that you never hit animals.

If having a glittering career in dressage means keeping quiet about animal abuse, then I would consider it a career not worth having.[/quote]
Neither would I, but many do!

He is a licensed trainer in UK. He has had runners this year. He has not retired to NZ. Very much operating in UK and welfare of horses is a license condition. He is underwhelming with his racing results. Maybe the horses don't run for him.

BBC etc very quiet about this

I think it is ingrained into a lot of the equine world that in order to make a horse comply force must be used

@powershowerforanhour

A 2 year old video- so this happened after Olly Townend lost sponsors for flogging his horses round Badminton.

He seems to have got away with it though too. He's had stuff said about how he trains his horses etc but he's still competing and people still like him. Mark Todd I imagine will be forgiven too, people are already making excuses for him.

@powershowerforanhour @AllOfUsAreDead

I can’t find a video of OT at the BHT overusing his whip. Have they all been deleted?

There's a bit in Ginny Leng's autobiography that I remember from reading it about 30 years ago - she went out with Mark Todd for a bit and there's one part where he said he was going to break in some youngsters, tied them to a post, went off to have some lunch and when he came back, they'd pulled against the post a few times and were now considered halter broken.

I had my not-quite-four-year-old warmblood on schooling livery under the supervision of a top-level dressage rider (competed on the UK team internationally, but not quite Olympic level). She decided he needed to be ridden in draw reins. I disagreed. He was removed from the yard.

[quote Giraffesandbottoms]**@powershowerforanhour* @AllOfUsAreDead*

I can’t find a video of OT at the BHT overusing his whip. Have they all been deleted?[/quote]
Probably. Hasn't he got new sponsors now too, a stud farm I think? Good pr may have gotten rid of the videos.

Not the only time he lost his temper publicly though, there's an article still online from 2008 when he lost his temper at another rider and was fined for it.

Can't find anything else though but I'm sure I'd read more on him. All forgiven though it seems.

Just wanted to explain about the “yearling” thing. Most racehorses (Flat bred ones at least) will be “broken in” (or backed/started the terms are used interchangeably) when they are about 20 months old, so almost 2. It’s standard that they’re backed/ridden away in the autumn/winter then brought along steadily for when 2 year old races start in April (Northern hemisphere). Most won’t race until the summer or autumn of their 2 year old year (for admin purposes all Thoroughbreds are classified as having their birthday on 1st Jan, hence why most are born Jan-April rather than later in the spring).

Thoroughbreds have been bred over hundreds of years to develop/grow faster than other breeds so a 2yo TB is very different to a 2yo Warmblood. But like others have said they’re not fully grown until about 4/5.

There’s also research that has been done that shows racing at a younger age increases bone density and reduces likelihood of soundness issues later in their careers.

I’m not here to debate the rights/wrongs of racing, just stating the reasons behind certain aspects of the industry.

Mark Todd and anyone else can dress it up how they like, it was wrong but the silence is deafening from British Eventing etc

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

@NichyNoo

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

You don't ride, do you?

"There's a bit in Ginny Leng's autobiography that I remember from reading it about 30 years ago - she went out with Mark Todd for a bit and there's one part where he said he was going to break in some youngsters, tied them to a post, went off to have some lunch and when he came back, they'd pulled against the post a few times and were now considered halter broken."
@VeryLittleOwl, you're right. I have that book so found the bit you remembered. After a youngster was halter broken like this, he saddled it, tied a leg up and lunged it on 3 legs. "It's barbaric" was her comment at the time apparently.

@billysboy

Mark Todd and anyone else can dress it up how they like, it was wrong but the silence is deafening from British Eventing etc

Isn't it just.

the silence is deafening from British Eventing etc

Quite! I keep checking Carl Hester’s Instagram… no comment there!

@thewheelofthehamster

The yearlings are racehorses, they will be a month or so off 2 years not 1. Still young but they'll be lightly backed then given a few months off. Thoroughbreds do mature a lot faster than some other breeds.

@NichyNoo

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

Off topic but the 'unnatural prancing about' are in reality, natural movements. I feed some field kept horses every day and in the last week I've seen a horse jump a fence because she didn't want to walk down to the opening, and all manner of prancing around, spinning, high leg action trot and canter, a few pirouettes, some backing up and some spectacular leaps in the air, and one HIppo horse roll in the very avoidable mud bath at the bottom of the field after wading around and splashing in it first, I don't think we even have a whip at the farm, and the only thing on their backs are rugs to keep them warm and dry. Horses perform a lot of movements used in training/riding/competition naturally and good horsemen/women can train a horse to do them on cue without using fear and pain, using fear and pain gets quicker results though and is why some people still do it, and that's what needs addressing.

@NichyNoo

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

This is totally wrong, I’m pleased to say.

Are you vegan, OP? I’m pretty bemused by the amount of horror that the average Brit can drum up for an abused dog/horse/insert anointed creature here…while also being a meat eater.

Hitting horses = bad
Kicking a cat = bad
Slaughtering cows and chickens = fine?

It makes no sense. And someone will no doubt be along to talk about ‘ethical’ animal husbandry. Ethical or not, they’re still being slaughtered.

@NichyNoo

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

Dressage is based on natural movements, maybe have a read up on the history of it? Horses jump naturally. My old horse did, in and out the field all sodding day I carry a whip, to back up my leg aids with a tap or to push a gate open, or bat a fly off her ears. I can use it for all of that because she's never been scared by it and doesn't even blink if I'm waving a whip around her - she doesn't associate it with pain or being hit

@NichyNoo

Of course it’s awful but can I ask how people thought that horses were trained in eventing and dancing and all the other unnatural, prancing about that they do? The jockey doesn’t just politely ask the horse to jump or to dance. They use whips and fear to create an instinctive reaction.

Maybe don’t comment on that which you clearly have absolutely no understanding of. Mark Todd’s actions were appalling, but let’s not then tar all equestrians with the same brush.

Just gutted, like a lot of you. He's been my hero since I was a little girl, such an amazing rider, barely moves in the saddle.
Not pleasant to see, I think it will (rightly) really damage his image and career.

@PinkSyCo So, it makes sense to you? You’re not seeing the base level hypocrisy of:

Hitting horses = bad
Kicking a cat = bad
Slaughtering cows and chickens = fine?

If OP is vegan, then fine. I respect her dedication to what she believes in. If not, it’s hypocrisy.

I’m not vegan, by the way. But I also don’t start threads like this.