To say post natal depression is limited to women?

[user7643789]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60319568

I do believe men can experience depression at any stage in life but as they cannot give birth they don't experience the hormonal and physical response.

@AutomaticMoon

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying, well the NHS page says so. The same NHS that gives general anaesthetic to men but not women for similar procedures, the same NHS that overdiagnoses personality disorders in women with trauma, the same NHS with women feeling violated at worst and misunderstood at best by male gynaecologists, the same NHS that gatekeeps endometriosis and similar diagnoses from women who very clearly abnormally suffer on their periods, the same NHS with the scandal around women being left in agony with contraceptive coils, the same NHS with the huge maternity scandal where new mums and babies needlessly died and the mums were blamed for stillbirths? That NHS? It's not exactly got a great record with women's health

Absolutely ridiculous to suggest men suffer post natal depression.

Depression of course. Post natal literally means after birth. Men do not give birth ffs.

I had severe PND but I have no issue with men being diagnosed with the same. Yes it’s far more common in women but it does happen to some men and they should supported.

Men do not suffer post natal depression as they are never post natal. They can absolutely suffer from depression and the birth of a child is a massive upheaval which could well trigger a depressive episode. It’s not post natal though.

"It literally means After Birth. The definition = relating to the period after birth. It doesn't attach female anywhere.
I find it strange that some don't bother going off and doing some actual research instead of spouting shite."

Don't you think the word "birth" kind of implies females...you know considering only females give birth?

Not calling mens depression PND takes nothing away from the seriousness of their mental health whatsoever.

@Shutupandcry

I had severe PND but I have no issue with men being diagnosed with the same. Yes it’s far more common in women but it does happen to some men and they should supported.

Supported, yes. But why diagnosed with PND? They haven't given birth. Why does their depression have to be given the descriptor "postnatal" rather than "situational" or "reactive" or "stress-related"? How does that help? Why not diagnose adjustment disorder or low testosterone or unadorned depression, instead of pretending they've got a condition that only women who've recently given birth can get?

I genuinely can't believe I've just read a poster suggesting that women are "gatekeeping" depression, fuck me. Acknowledging that words have definitions is not gatekeeping.

[quote cuno]@AutomaticMoon

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying, well the NHS page says so. The same NHS that gives general anaesthetic to men but not women for similar procedures, the same NHS that overdiagnoses personality disorders in women with trauma, the same NHS with women feeling violated at worst and misunderstood at best by male gynaecologists, the same NHS that gatekeeps endometriosis and similar diagnoses from women who very clearly abnormally suffer on their periods, the same NHS with the scandal around women being left in agony with contraceptive coils, the same NHS with the huge maternity scandal where new mums and babies needlessly died and the mums were blamed for stillbirths? That NHS? It's not exactly got a great record with women's health [/quote]
Yep, exactly this. Don’t know if you read up thread, I quoted from a study talking about how they have a lower threshold for PPD diagnosis in MEN, cause they don’t often talk about their feelings.... so it’s easier to get diagnosed with PPD if you’re a man, not a woman?!

This same NHS that diagnoses millions of women with incurable Interstitial Cystitis when they actually have a very curable embedded UTI. Apparently it’s been known for decades that dipstick tests are not fit for purpose and miss 50% of infections. They destroy lives with impunity so I’m sorry if I’m skeptical of their information.

The nhs seems more concerned with catering to men on women’s wards and performance wokery. So not entirely shocked by the fact that they are perpetuating garbage science.

@PossiblyDreaming

Men do not suffer post natal depression as they are never post natal. They can absolutely suffer from depression and the birth of a child is a massive upheaval which could well trigger a depressive episode. It’s not post natal though.

Apparently they are such sensitive souls that they have a phantom pregnancy, via osmosis. I think women should suck it up and deal with their silly psychosis on their own so men can be properly supported.

[quote cuno]@AutomaticMoon

Yeah, I don't understand why people are saying, well the NHS page says so. The same NHS that gives general anaesthetic to men but not women for similar procedures, the same NHS that overdiagnoses personality disorders in women with trauma, the same NHS with women feeling violated at worst and misunderstood at best by male gynaecologists, the same NHS that gatekeeps endometriosis and similar diagnoses from women who very clearly abnormally suffer on their periods, the same NHS with the scandal around women being left in agony with contraceptive coils, the same NHS with the huge maternity scandal where new mums and babies needlessly died and the mums were blamed for stillbirths? That NHS? It's not exactly got a great record with women's health [/quote]
What's the endometriosis thing?
Please.

@mummykel16 It takes an unacceptable amount if time to get a diagnosis (and treatment)

@BlaBlaSmthSmth

"It literally means After Birth. The definition = relating to the period after birth. It doesn't attach female anywhere. I find it strange that some don't bother going off and doing some actual research instead of spouting shite."

Don't you think the word "birth" kind of implies females...you know considering only females give birth?

Not calling mens depression PND takes nothing away from the seriousness of their mental health whatsoever.

I know it implies female and that only females give birth being one and having done so 4 times. Your explanation isn't needed dear.

[quote AutomaticMoon]@mummykel16 It takes an unacceptable amount if time to get a diagnosis (and treatment)[/quote]
Thank you.

[quote AutomaticMoon]@mummykel16 It takes an unacceptable amount if time to get a diagnosis (and treatment)[/quote]
Going to Google what the treatment is.

@AutomaticMoon
Couldn't agree with you more on all points! Shocking that the diagnostic criteria is so low for men as well. And I don't understand people saying well what about adoptive parents as a counterpoint... no I don't think adoptive parents can get PND (and I believe there is a more suitable term post-adoptive depression). And the same goes for the non-biological mother in a same sex couple. It is not a slight on anyone, it is not saying that a woman who has given birth is somehow superior or has it worse by default!

@mummykel16
Are you asking what endometriosis is or what the NHS are doing/not doing? Sorry just want to check so I can give the right answer.

Why would they be involved in pre- natal care, they aren't the ones pregnant so would be pretty pointless really.
Postnatal depression is a name for a diagnosis - depression that comes after a birth.

I'll happily stand up and fight for many things that should only be for Women (single sex spaces and the attempted destruction of female privacy, female only prisons, maintaining our right to be called women/female to name a few ) but stuff like this is ridiculous imo
It's just a name - it doesn't take away that a woman has obviously given birth nor the severity of PND but people can't just decide that it does not and can not exist because they said so or because the menz are lying arseholes.

So pre-natal applies to women but post natal doesn't? I'd wish you a true understanding of post-natal depression but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You probably didn't see my earlier post about dealing with two cases of clinical negligence involving women with PND who had no previous history of mental illness. To expand on it, both women were dismissed as tired, hormonal and just suffering from baby blues. One suffered for years before killing herself. In her final day, her husband ran after her and talked her down from a bridge(not the first time), restrained her until an ambulance arrived (not the first time) and they tried to refuse to take her in (also not the first time) because A&E couldn't do anything. They eventually took her, she was "assessed" and they agreed with her that she just needed to go to her parents for the weekend. He was ordered to leave her alone and let her go. So she went to get the train to her parents, got off early then threw herself in front of the next one. Yes, men can suffer depression after the birth of a baby but diluting the research to include men discounts the physical causes and could lethally harm women.

@WonderfulYou

I would call it sulking in the guise of depression, that they are no longer number 1 in the life and priorities of their partner.

That’s a disgusting thing to say and why women with PND are dismissed because they’re said to be ‘just tired’ etc.

Depression is very real regardless of whether it’s a women dealing with PND or normal depression or a man dealing with depression.

I do get your point, but I don't think it was a disgusting thing for this poster to say. A family member of mine used those exact words when describing his feelings (no longer being his partner's no 1). 'Sulking' is perhaps unkind, but not unrealistic to think this may be an issue for some men.

@Fuckityfucksake
"I know it implies female and that only females give birth being one and having done so 4 times. Your explanation isn't needed dear."

The post I quoted literally said "it doesn't attach females anywhere" dear. Word. For. Word. 🤣

It’s doesn’t need to attach female

As it’s a known biological fact only females give birth

Men can never be female

YANBU. I completely agree.

Men getting depressed when a baby arrives is absolutely not the same as PND experienced by a new Mother, with all the physical, mental and hormonal changes that brings.

@OhWhyNot

It’s doesn’t need to attach female

As it’s a known biological fact only females give birth

Men can never be female

I'm not sure if that's a response to me? If it is, I agree with you, women are the ones giving birth and therefore the post natal part will apply only to females. I was responding to someone who claimed that the definition of PND wasn't attached to the word female, as if 'after birth' somehow doesn't refer to women.

Postnatal depression is a name for a diagnosis - depression that comes after a birth.

Weirdly, postnatal depression strictly means that the baby is depressed. Post natal means "after being born" which is why this type of depression is more accurately known as postpartum depression, after giving birth.

In neither case is it after a birth, stop trying to create a broad definition that doesn't exist.

They can’t have PND but I’d imagine some fathers can get depression after the birth of their baby, it’s a big change. Traumatising to see their wife/partner in pain and in some cases get into real difficulty during labour.