Women taking the fall for men

[UnbelievableAlien]

I think women are often set up to take the fall for men.

Whether is Allegra Stratton having to lose her job for a couple of comments about parties while her boss Johnson keeps his after actually attending the parties.

Or, more seriously, Ghislaine Maxwell being the only person who is alive facing justice (rightly) for her role in trafficking while not a single man who actually commuted the abuse is.

Possibly Cressida Dick taking the fall for her disgusting sexist, homophobic, racist male colleagues, but the buck does stop with her, so probably not such a concrete example.

Of course these women are responsible for their own actions, but it is weird that what the men do is often worse but the woman are the ones who take the blame! AIBU?

I'm with you. These women were the very definition of girlboss feminists. Yass Queen! What we need is more female serial killers!

It’s a good point

I have a family member who took the fall for a man with a serious criminal record, despite the fact that worst case scenario, she could have gone to prison, with her three children ending up in care.

I just despair.

I agree. I’d actually include Theresa May as well.

@VladmirsPoutine

I'm with you. These women were the very definition of girlboss feminists. Yass Queen! What we need is more female serial killers!

Ghislain Maxwell is a girlboss feminist? Are you serious? She manipulated vulnerable young women to have sexual with various men!

Cressida Dick, is bloody awful. She’s buried her head in the sand to further her own career and in doing so has made life awful for female colleagues. If you head up an organisation you are responsible for culture, scandal after scandal and a pervasive culture of sexism is an appalling record to leave. So no I don’t think she’s taken the fall for men

I agree with you, and I despair that people seem unable to grasp the nuance - yes, these women individually have done appalling things and deserve to be sacked/prosecuted depending on their misdeeds.

It is possible to recognise that while still pointing out that they are being hung out to dry while powerful men, often men who have had more agency and done more appalling things, hide behind them. Allegra Stratton deserved to be fired for what she did. She was one of many people, most of them male, who deserved to be fired. It isn't a coincidence that she ended up as the public face of punishment and humiliation for the entire episode, while the PM and other male culprits remain in post.

Nobody is cheerleading for Ghislaine Maxwell. Very few would argue that Cressida Dick isn't a corrupt police officer. That's not the point.

This is what feminism is in a nutshell. This demonstrates feminism so perfectly. Those poor women, I'd add Theresa May and Amber Rudd to that list too. Even M.Thatcher. The epitome of feminism.

I agree OP.

Male traits, (many of them undesirable) appear to be what get you to the top. As a woman you need to have these in spades to make up for the fact that you're not a male and it's harder to stand up for women's issues whilst seeking promotion because those in a position to promote you don't recognise the value in that - if anything it's a threat to them.

Cressida Dick has done plenty of appalling things in her own right. De Menezes, anyone? She had no business staying in post as long as she did.

@sadpapercourtesan

I agree with you, and I despair that people seem unable to grasp the nuance - yes, these women individually have done appalling things and deserve to be sacked/prosecuted depending on their misdeeds.

It is possible to recognise that while still pointing out that they are being hung out to dry while powerful men, often men who have had more agency and done more appalling things, hide behind them. Allegra Stratton deserved to be fired for what she did. She was one of many people, most of them male, who deserved to be fired. It isn't a coincidence that she ended up as the public face of punishment and humiliation for the entire episode, while the PM and other male culprits remain in post.

Nobody is cheerleading for Ghislaine Maxwell. Very few would argue that Cressida Dick isn't a corrupt police officer. That's not the point.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so clearly.

There's a point in there about awful men being more likely to get away with being awful for longer than awful women do. I'm just not sure Cressida Dick is the example you want.

She was like fucking Teflon. To the extent that I always assumed she'd only been able to hang on that long because she had some serious dirt on someone, even bearing in mind her significant class privilege. She hasn't taken the fall for anyone: she hasn't even taken anything like enough fall for her own misdeeds.

I agree not so much Cressida Dick, her resignation was just the catalyst of my thoughts tonight.
I’m certainly no fan of any of these women.
I still think the point is interesting though.

@UnbelievableAlien

I think women are often set up to take the fall for men.

Whether is Allegra Stratton having to lose her job for a couple of comments about parties while her boss Johnson keeps his after actually attending the parties.

Or, more seriously, Ghislaine Maxwell being the only person who is alive facing justice (rightly) for her role in trafficking while not a single man who actually commuted the abuse is.

Possibly Cressida Dick taking the fall for her disgusting sexist, homophobic, racist male colleagues, but the buck does stop with her, so probably not such a concrete example.

Of course these women are responsible for their own actions, but it is weird that what the men do is often worse but the woman are the ones who take the blame! AIBU?

I agree except regarding dick

Ghislaine Maxwell is a really interesting example. The harm could not have happened without the men. She could not have harmed the young women without the men, the weapon is literally a penis. But the only person prosecuted is the only one incapable of causing the actual harm.

It is shocking. And quite obviously wrong.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Ghislaine Maxwell is a really interesting example. The harm could not have happened without the men. She could not have harmed the young women without the men, the weapon is literally a penis. But the only person prosecuted is the only one incapable of causing the actual harm.

It is shocking. And quite obviously wrong.

"She could not have harmed the young women without the men, the weapon is literally a penis"

Are you for real ?

Are you seriously saying women are not capable of abuse, sexual or otherwise?

I would add Carrie Johnson for taking the fall for her husband's incompetence. Don't like the woman, but that's not the point.

Ghislaine Maxwell did plenty of harm to keep herself in yachts and jets. I've no problem with her paying the price but she shouldnt be the only one on trial.

Cressida Dick has done a shocking job for years and years and heaven knows how she's clung on so long (friends in high plzces). I think almost anyone else, male or female, would have been binned years ago. She was the boss fgs, it all happened on her watch.

@MarchCrocus

Cressida Dick has done plenty of appalling things in her own right. De Menezes, anyone? She had no business staying in post as long as she did.

I agree and I won't forget the Sarah Everard vigil either.

Maxwell is a nasty piece of work - she's carrying the can for her own misdeeds.

Allegra Stratton IS carrying the can for the men. When she resigned it seemed the right thing to do. But given nobody else involved has, I don't see why she had to.

@CouldIhaveaword

I would add Carrie Johnson for taking the fall for her husband's incompetence. Don't like the woman, but that's not the point.

She is perhaps the most obvious example. Boris is an arse so it must be down to her malign influence. Are we in the Garden of Eden or what?

Definitely Theresa May. I thought at the time the woman was amazing for actually getting a Brexit deal and then the injustice that it got rejected - I can not fathom how crushing that would have been.

Cressida Dick - I think she is an example of an outsider who takes on the affections of the ultimate insider and doesn't support women.

Ghislaine Maxwell - I do think she needs to be held accountable for her part in the crimes which was not small - she played a huge part. That whatever his name was killed off doesn't mitigate her from facing justice for her role.

But on the whole, yes I agree that woman are held to a much higher standard and that mediocre men get to positions of power and get 'forgiven' in the media much more quickly.

Does anyone really believe that Carrie is behind Boris' boorish and incompetent behaviour though? I mean he's been like that for years and she's pretty new on the scene.

Sorry Ghislaine absolutely accountable for their own actions as is Cressy Dick

Allegra Stratton yes - possibly the stooge

@Porcupineintherough

Does anyone really believe that Carrie is behind Boris' boorish and incompetent behaviour though? I mean he's been like that for years and she's pretty new on the scene.

No I don't, whatever jilted loved Cummings says

Ghislaine Maxwell is undoubtedly a monster. It's still pretty stark though, that of all the network of sex trafficking, corruption and abuse that Epstein was running, and all the powerful men involved, and all the lesser powerful men below them - the ONLY person who has gone to jail is a woman.