Women taking the fall for men

[UnbelievableAlien]

I think women are often set up to take the fall for men.

Whether is Allegra Stratton having to lose her job for a couple of comments about parties while her boss Johnson keeps his after actually attending the parties.

Or, more seriously, Ghislaine Maxwell being the only person who is alive facing justice (rightly) for her role in trafficking while not a single man who actually commuted the abuse is.

Possibly Cressida Dick taking the fall for her disgusting sexist, homophobic, racist male colleagues, but the buck does stop with her, so probably not such a concrete example.

Of course these women are responsible for their own actions, but it is weird that what the men do is often worse but the woman are the ones who take the blame! AIBU?

Anyone who thinks one person can undo years of mysogynistic sexist behaviour is dilusional

This is controversial but I don’t think any woman could do it. What the Met needs now is a really tough male commissioner from another force who will be prepared enforce decent standards and knock some heads together.

It's right that all of these women were held accountable for their behaviour none of them are victims, but yes the men should be accountable too

[quote cocktailclub]@x2boys
But when will the real issue of male behaviour be addressed? She was head of the met but she didn't cause their behaviour.
Anyone who thinks one person can undo years of mysogynistic sexist behaviour is dilusional[/quote]
But it was literally her job to do that
Any head of a service who has failed so miserably take the rap for it ,it's part of having such a prestigious job

I don't know about women who are not in the public eye, but the women named here are all 'well educated' middle class women who, despite knowing better, chose to join misogynistic/racist/homophobic organisations with very particular, negative cultures. Everyone in London knew what Boris Johnson is, professionally and personally. Why should anyone have sympathy for Allegra Stratton and Carrie Johnson. They both made 'clear eyed' decisions to join him in his endeavours. Ghislaine Maxwell deserves anything she gets. She procured vulnerable, poor girls to be consumed by men in exchange for a 'nice' lifestyle and money for herself. Cressida Dick spent her whole life in the current police culture. I am sick of hearing her say she is sorry for the latest shitstorm to come out about the police. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

It was very annoying that Nicola Sturgeon's trial for breaking the ministerial code of which she was cleared was viewed by her detractors as Alex Salmond's retrial. Effectively a woman, being held accountable for the behaviour of a man.

@BlueBellsArePretty

It was very annoying that Nicola Sturgeon's trial for breaking the ministerial code of which she was cleared was viewed by her detractors as Alex Salmond's retrial. Effectively a woman, being held accountable for the behaviour of a man.

Under Sturgeon's watch-

1. The Scottish Gvt investigated Salmond, and was found by a court to have been biased against him.
2. They then passed a file to the police who charged him. He was acquitted.
3. Sturgeon was found to have misled the Scottish Parliament regarding her dealings with Salmond. She was lucky that the committee made no finding as to whether she intentionally misled the parliament.

I've no liking for Salmond, but this was an attempted beat-up of a political opponent and Sturgeon was not held responsible for her behaviour in any meaningful way.

@CruCru

I agree. I’d actually include Theresa May as well.

Theresa 'hostile environment' May? I think there are some short memories here.

Yanbu. The Allegra one really bugs me. Her career is ruined for laughing about something that her BOSS did. Boss is fine. Not ok.

Plus she resigned waaaaay too quickly, someone had obviously told her to.

women have more integrity?

I wish Johnson would follow Cressida Dick's example

@MrsTerryPratchett

Ghislaine Maxwell is a really interesting example. The harm could not have happened without the men. She could not have harmed the young women without the men, the weapon is literally a penis. But the only person prosecuted is the only one incapable of causing the actual harm.

It is shocking. And quite obviously wrong.

She's not taking the fall for men. She is taking the fall for what she did (assuming that the allegations against her are true, which seems likely.

This thread is overlooking the fact that a man - Epstein - was charged. He killed himself. You can't prosecute a corpse.

@CouldIhaveaword

I would add Carrie Johnson for taking the fall for her husband's incompetence. Don't like the woman, but that's not the point.

Carrie Johnson has no formal role in the UK government yet seems to be bending Johnson's ear behind the scenes, for example Nowzad. If this is true, as seems likely, she deserves criticism for contributing to the government's chaos. She shouldn't be let off just because Johnson isn't telling her to mind her own business.

@Thewindwhispers

Yanbu. The Allegra one really bugs me. Her career is ruined for laughing about something that her BOSS did. Boss is fine. Not ok.

It was no laughing matter.

@ThinWomansBrain

women have more integrity?

I wish Johnson would follow Cressida Dick's example

Johnson is hardly typical in his sense of entitlement. But I hope the ratbag goes too.

I agree with a PP who essentially said that women are rightly are being held accountable in a way that men are largely not (understand that Epstein was and then died).

Interesting to note that these women mentioned hold a lot of privilege, and I wonder if their lack of integrity is indicative of... I don't know - it's 3.45am and I'm awake because I have Covid and am feeling miserable so bear with me while I try to make my brain work. Something about the women who've succeeded in these typically male dominated environments showing a real lack of integrity. It's less usual for women to hold some of these positions and part of me wonders whether they'd have got there if they'd conducted themselves in a more honest manner. Probably not. Doesn't excuse it, but I think theres something in that about how women who progress to these positions and how they're expected to look the other way at best, and be complicit in shitty behaviour at worst.

@UnbelievableAlien

I am far from being a supporter of any of these women! Maxwell is hellish and she really sickens me, Dick is incompetent and Stratton is about as far from my politics as is possible to be! Nor did I suggest they should not be held accountable for their various evil crimes/ wrongdoing/ incompetences. However why are non of the myriad of clearly guilty men being held accountable for THEIR crimes and wrongdoings in these cases?!

Totally get you.

Even DH says the same thing about Maxwell. She deserves everything coming to her.

But what about the men?

Yes agreed. Used to be a saying fall guy. What's happened there? Women get promoted on merit and men fuck up.

Or perhaps the women are set up. I'd definitely say that for Theresa May.
Set up to cover up and take the flak. There's a long list of examples when you think about it.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Ghislaine Maxwell is a really interesting example. The harm could not have happened without the men. She could not have harmed the young women without the men, the weapon is literally a penis. But the only person prosecuted is the only one incapable of causing the actual harm.

It is shocking. And quite obviously wrong.

So you think trafficking isn’t harmful? How about touching someones genitals without consent?

@MarchCrocus

Cressida Dick has done plenty of appalling things in her own right. De Menezes, anyone? She had no business staying in post as long as she did.

Exactly, she should have been fired when her force decided to murder De Menezes.

I don't think this thread makes the case well.

Maxwell was horrendous but they only went after her once Epstein committed suicide in what was, pretty much, the clearest possible confession. I don't think death (despite the way it circumvents the criminal justice system) is actually "getting away with it".

Cressida Dick has stepped down, but plenty of male Met officers have also been convicted of crimes or had their careers cut short. Of the previous 3 Met commissioners, 2 also left post early because of Met scandals.

Of the ones mentioned, Allegra Stratton is the only one who seems to me to have been a fall'guy'.

Maxwell is a guilty paedophile. She's not taking the fall for Epstein. Without her and could not have got access to the girls he abused quite as easily. I see her as equally guilty.

Cressida Dick may well be incompetent but so are lots of other senior leaders. The thing here is that it's hard to get to a senior position like this for a woman and she's leaving because of the ingrained poor behaviour of men, and a culture of sexism she inherited. If she was leaving because of making the wrong decision about the shooting, fair enough. That's what I would expect. But leaving because of male behaviour. That's the bit that doesn't feel right to me.

I dont see it as her resigning because of male behaviour @cocktailclub, more due to the inability unwillingness of the organisation she heads to deal with that behaviour satisfactorily. Look at that officer who was kept on recently despite bring found guilty of 8 counts of gross misconduct! Any place I've worked 1 count would see you instantly dismissed.

@cocktailclub

Cressida Dick has resigned because she has not been able to address the poor behaviour of MALE police officers. Of course they can't control their own behaviour. Their senior male officers can't control them or perhaps don't see anything wrong with it. Naturally the woman should go because the men can't behave.

Absolutely this.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/11/cressida-dick-could-not-solve-the-mets-problems-she-could-barely-admit-they-existed

I thought this was an interesting article. Pretty shocked at the number of people who are effectively absolving her of any blame. The head of an organisation is absolutely responsible for its culture and the article above gives an example of a previous commissioner who too this seriously. Dick’s approach has been to cover up at all costs and protect the reputation of the Met at the expense of the public. Excusing this because she’s a woman is pretty sickening.