You want a Maserati? You better work stud.

[IAmAThreeButIWantATen]

Men who think they're entitled to '10s' when it comes to partners, but they're averaging a 3.
Work harder!

Oh you want a 'gym bunny' girlfriend or 'someone who looks after themselves' .... yet there you are with your beer gut. Oh and she can't go to the gym in case other guys look at her but also she better not let herself go!

Or you want a sexy, confident, earns her own money kinda woman. But after kids can she just also look after them all day, and also work so you're not having to 'pay for her to sit on her arse all day while I work'... but also take care of herself, just not at the gym where others would look at her or where manchild might have to 'babysit' his own kids. Make sure all the housework is also done because 'men don't see mess'... carry the mental load because 'you're better at organising' then perform like a porn star after a day of children, work, cleaning, household management...but not too much because men don't like girls who've 'been around the block'... so maybe be sorta slutty but virginal... toned but not too muscular... parent like you got no job, work like you got no kids... be grateful for any help but also be kind and accept men how they are because 'boys will be boys' and 'men are just like that..'

Get fucked.

This sorta thing is what makes me laugh at Incels.

They are usually very ugly pathetic men, who demand the best specimen of women. They will not accept those who they deem ugly and unfit.

Yet they don’t exactly look picture perfect themselves do they?

Match has an excellent way of screening these superficial types out...they can actually specify a weight parameter for the woman they are looking for (and vice versa tbf).

I don't look remotely like a Victoria's Secret Model (unless they do plus size these days?)...but even if I did I wouldn't swipe right on the kind of person who thinks that's appropriate.

We all have our preferences bodywise and that's fine, but an actual weight range on a dating profile...erm, no ta!

How about rather than blaming men for staying true to themselves and aiming high for what they want in life, women do the same and not allow themselves to settle for less?! What's stopping women from saying they are entitled to "'10s' when it comes to partners, but they're averaging a 3. Work harder!" Don't tell men what they can aim for when women aren't being stopped from doing the exact same thing!

How many threads on here are from women who have spent years putting up with rubbish behaviour from their partners / husbands mostly for a quiet life / because it's easier or because they feel they have no choice? Stop blaming the men! After all, if the situation was reversed and I could get away with sitting on the sofa watching TV whilst my husband cooked, cleaned and looked after the kids in the background I quite possibly would, certainly if he had always done it and never really asked me to do anything. What's stopping women deciding what's acceptable in a relationship if men can?

Start as you mean to go on in a relationship, from the very first date to the 1st time they decide they want to play golf every Saturday whilst you have no free time ever. Accept nothing that isn't equal.

Stop making women out to be victims in this situation, we don't need it! We are only being victims of mens' choosey-ness if we allow it!

But I'm putting a caveat on what I say, before anyone jumps on me - obviously I'm not talking about women who have become victims of abuse after they've had children or who are vulnerable and have been coerced into an abusive relationship. That's an entirely different topic. I'm talking about the millions of regular women who just settle for rubbish behaviour from their partners for years on end, starting from before they were even married...

I can't remember the name, but a few years ago there was a school shooting by a self proclaimed incel who was furious at women's power and thought they should be given out as slaves to men, you know the drill.

He was a very surprisingly good looking young man. I remember thinking that he must have been exceptionally repellent as a person if he couldn't get female attention. Which obviously he was, since he was a woman hating murderer. Just scary how very obvious he must have made it, since very good looks usually count for something, especially in high school.

I had a kids joke book in the late 1970s that contained the following 'joke' :

Bunch of guys are watching a pretty young woman walk by in a mini skirt. Larry says hey Chuck, would you marry a woman like that? Heck yeah! says Chuck. Larry says Chuck, would you let your wife dress like that? Chuck says heck no!

Even aged 9 I thought this was absolute sexist shite. Most of my boyfriends displayed similar attitudes over the years ie fancying sexy women, but not wanting 'their' woman to be sexy. Must admit even boring old DP was into 'natural beauty' (eyeroll times a million) when we met but I lambasted him until he fucking well behaved himself.

These attitudes are as old as the hills and the Internet has allowed them to flourish in plain sight. We see you, Chuck and Larry.

Someone up thread said it was akin to car shopping.
It's surprisingly similar.
1careful previous owner, not too many miles on the clock, good bodywork, reliable.
Like we are objects of service.
Yet some who view women like this are themselves a rusty banger. And when perhaps a woman isn't interested they are genuinely surprised.

How about rather than blaming men for staying true to themselves and aiming high for what they want in life, women do the same and not allow themselves to settle for less?! What's stopping women from saying they are entitled to"'10s' when it comes to partners, but they're averaging a 3. Work harder!"

Two things spring to mind.

1. Biological clock. Women might feel much picker if they didn't have a definite window on fertility, which is actually really pretty young. Decades before most people's bodies start to lose function with age.

1. Socialisation. It's starting to change a bit now, but marketing for men is usually based on bigging them up, while marketing for women is usually based on making them feel inadequate.

I agree we are not victims. Not sure I'll ever demand superficial man features but I agree we need to up our game and not but into the crap that.
1 we even need a man
2 men bring happiness to our lives and without men we are failures
3 dating sites men lie

Yep. I'd never date if my husband died.

Most of the time reading on here I'm left with wondering why women date men at all.

I am 49 and if me and DP every split up - and its a possibility - i will stay single for the rest of my life, i cant be arsed with it all. I am not changing for anymore.

@DrSbaitso

How about rather than blaming men for staying true to themselves and aiming high for what they want in life, women do the same and not allow themselves to settle for less?! What's stopping women from saying they are entitled to"'10s' when it comes to partners, but they're averaging a 3. Work harder!"

Two things spring to mind.

1. Biological clock. Women might feel much picker if they didn't have a definite window on fertility, which is actually really pretty young. Decades before most people's bodies start to lose function with age.

1. Socialisation. It's starting to change a bit now, but marketing for men is usually based on bigging them up, while marketing for women is usually based on making them feel inadequate.

I kind of agree but with regards to your (very valid) points.

1. Women are having babies into their early 40's now, we start dating 20-some years before then. More than enough time to put our foot down and find a decent man. I'd rather have not had a child than settle for having one with some useless numpty just because I want a baby! We must value ourselves more.

1. But in all good consciousness, we shouldn't blame marketing. We have to think for ourselves and not be fooled by it, and if we were, but now know we were suckered in, we need to teach our children, both boys and girls, to think for themselves and to treat both sexes equally. After all, the men who have this awful attitude had mothers, so as women, we have to take some responsibility for raising boys who become men with these entitled attitudes! How did they get to adulthood with these outdated views? And we have to take responsibility for our daughters growing up with feelings of inadequacy. Why would we allow that? If my daughter settles for a numpty, I'll be having words with HER and her partner's MOTHER!

Women are having babies into their early 40's now

Most aren't.

If my daughter settles for a numpty, I'll be having words with HER and her partner's MOTHER!

I can't believe you don't see what's wrong with this.

Don't forget they love women who will sit on the sofa and share a takeaway with them but don't put any weight on

I would also remain single if my dh died/divorced me

Waaaaaaaay to much hassle

@DrSbaitso

If my daughter settles for a numpty, I'll be having words with HER and her partner's MOTHER!

I can't believe you don't see what's wrong with this.

Blimey so once again it’s ‘women’s fault. How about men stop acting like numptys, or is that too hard for their little brains to work out?

@Comedycook

Don't forget they love women who will sit on the sofa and share a takeaway with them but don't put any weight on

Yes happy to stay in with you, but also nights out with the lads where they'll disappear for 12hrs after telling you they'll be home by 12am, then call you 'crazy, controlling, can't even go out with the lads', when you ring at 5am wondering if they're dead.

I can't believe you don't see what's wrong with this.

Blimey so once again it’s ‘women’s fault.How about men stop acting like numptys, or is that too hard for their little brains to work out?

I knew I would get comments like this, hence the winky face! But, I stand by my point. These useless men (mostly) had mothers. How did we allow them to get to adulthood with the rubbish attitudes? I'm NOT saying the fathers shouldn't have been a good example, but we are always squawking about equality, so why shouldn't we as women and mothers take equal responsibility for our sons growing up with a shitty attitude to women? Why is it the father's responsibility to ensure their son grows up with the right attitude? If boys growing up see their mothers allowing their fathers to treat them like rubbish, what lesson are they going to learn? They need to see their mothers acting like equals and not standing for any rubbish.

This is not man-apologising, this is not women-blaming. What it IS saying is that if we want to be equals, we have to take equal blame in why things have gone wrong and not just bleat that men have the wrong attitude! WHY do they have the wrong attitude? Because SOCIETY as a WHOLE which includes men AND women, have allowed it!!

Don't get indignant, get equal. On ALL fronts!

I think I understand where you're coming from, OP. Love your posts by the way. I can relate to how often men seem to be punching above their weight - ie always higher standards for women to live up to, esp re appearance, being slim, etc.

@Comedycook

Don't forget they love women who will sit on the sofa and share a takeaway with them but don't put any weight on

Aah, the classic! I can't stand girls who push their food around and turn their nose up at a good steak - give me a real woman with real appetites any day, who can drink me under the table. Oh and make her a size 8.

@KittyKattyFosterMummy

I can't believe you don't see what's wrong with this.

Blimey so once again it’s ‘women’s fault.How about men stop acting like numptys, or is that too hard for their little brains to work out?

I knew I would get comments like this, hence the winky face! But, I stand by my point. These useless men (mostly) had mothers. How did we allow them to get to adulthood with the rubbish attitudes? I'm NOT saying the fathers shouldn't have been a good example, but we are always squawking about equality, so why shouldn't we as women and mothers take equal responsibility for our sons growing up with a shitty attitude to women? Why is it the father's responsibility to ensure their son grows up with the right attitude? If boys growing up see their mothers allowing their fathers to treat them like rubbish, what lesson are they going to learn? They need to see their mothers acting like equals and not standing for any rubbish.

This is not man-apologising, this is not women-blaming. What it IS saying is that if we want to be equals, we have to take equal blame in why things have gone wrong and not just bleat that men have the wrong attitude! WHY do they have the wrong attitude? Because SOCIETY as a WHOLE which includes men AND women, have allowed it!!

Don't get indignant, get equal. On ALL fronts!

So let me get this straight...

You think that a winking emoji will excuse your sexism....

You think your sexism is funny because it annoys women....

You deliberately downplay the role of fathers in child rearing, even and especially with regard to raising men (your lip service fools nobody, especially when followed by "Why is it the father's responsibility to ensure their son grows up with the right attitude?")...

You are of the "it's all women's fault" school of equality....

You accuse women of "squawking"....

You accuse women of "squawking" about EQUALITY, of all things....

And you call yourself KittyKattyFosterMummy. Well, I guess it's not quite LadyGirlMarilynClaraImHavingAWomansPeriod but it's close enough.

By the way, has anyone seen the subreddit on men writing women? This actually isn't as bad as it gets, believe it or not.

Totally get what you're saying. Although people can aim for better in a partner, they should be bringing something to the table too. The only men that are fat, balding, nasty etc that have supermodels for girlfriends or wives are rich men. That's the something they bring. They've got nothing else, personality is shit etc.

But I have seen women before protesting heavily that they don't need a man and don't want a man etc, but when they find the right one, the attitude changes entirely. You just don't want the wrong man op. Nothing wrong with that, nor did I. No point being with the wrong man just to avoid being alone. Too many settle.

After all, the men who have this awful attitude had mothers, so as women, we have to take some responsibility for raising boys who become men with these entitled attitudes! How did they get to adulthood with these outdated views? And we have to take responsibility for our daughters growing up with feelings of inadequacy

Omg THIS. 99.9% of these sorts of threads/the ones on the relationships board have m with my head in my hands. "My husband does 1 school pick up a year and only when forced, 0.3% of housework and I have to direct it, doesn't communicate in a healthy way, doesn't ever want to spend family time together with the kids but I won't leave him because my kids adore him and I want my them to have a 2 parent household" how do you think your children are going to grow up? Your daughters will end up being doormats or worse and your sons will end up being the crap lazy husbands we hear about over and over (and over) who magically forget that washing machines need emptied once done the second their wife gets pregnant.

I think women who accent this are selfish, frankly. Do better for your children.

To be honest, in 9/10 couples I see, the men are always punching well above in everything - looks, personality.

I don't know why we settle for less.