DS Last one picked in PE

[GoldenLightNights]

AIBU to contact the teacher with regards to this:

DS is 9, he’s a wonderful child, great at all things science and maths related but not so much at sports. He plays football outside of school for one of the lower ability teams and sort of enjoys it, he isn’t forced to play or anything like that.

Anyway today at school he had PE, we’ve never had any issues before but today for some reason the teacher let two boys pick teams and my son was the last to be picked. He is quite upset especially as one of the boys doing the picking is a close friend.
Anyway I find the idea of letting other children pick teams horrendous and if not my son some child will be picked last. I actually thought this method of choosing teams was done away with years ago!
I want to contact the teacher to ask if he would consider adopting a new approach to team selection. My husband says I’m jumping the gun and to wait to see if it happens again…… so what do you think?
He was properly upset this evening 😢

[quote worriedatthemoment]@appleturnovers that happens even if the teachers pick the team, which is why its generally better to have teams picked of similar ability but many see that as unfair in sports , but fine in other subjects [/quote]
It shouldn't be considered unfair! I was one of the worst at sports and my favourite lessons were where I was placed with similar ability. At least then I had a fighting chance of doing well (comparatively, within our little group - I was never under any illusions I would actually be good at sports), plus the other people in the group weren't going to laugh or moan at me because they weren't that much better, which meant I had the confidence to try harder and get a bit better.

I imagine it's better for the athletic kids too, so they can stretch themselves and really shine rather than being held back by a kid on their team who can't even throw a ball in a straight line.

@ElftonWednesday

Being last doesn't mean you have a learning disability - surprised it was your default go to response and seems to be an ignorant view to have

But it might, and yes, if my DDs started coming last in maths tests when previously they usually did better then I would speak to the teacher. In fact most parents wouldn't even have a choice as the school would be speaking to them.

So, what actually was your point other than a completely irrelevant straw man argument in support of teachers being able to bully pupils? As others have pointed out to you, a maths test is not an analogy to being picked last in PE. Perhaps you could explain it more clearly, if you remember what the point was yourself, as in spite of my post-graduate education I don't seem to be understanding what your point actually is. If there even is one. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

My point is in the real world someone needs to be last, someone needs to be slowest, someone needs to be less able in a particular field than the next. Accepting that is a valuable life lesson unless you walk around with your head stuck up your postgraduate educated arse avoiding reality.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@thewhatsit kids today do know who is in which set and they so know test results etc
Mine have also been kept in at break at primary to relearn their spellings as they didn't get enough right ? Had a detention at secondary for not getting a good enough grade
So it totally does happen to some extent in other subjects
They could always say who would win the dressing up prize or drawing comp so never bothered as they knew that wasn't their thing
All kids are good at something [/quote]
How would they know test results? I assume the test results on those in lower sets aren’t read out to those in the top set because that would be pretty awful?

If you’d shown me 10 children I knew not to be in the top set I wouldn’t have the faintest clue which of them was the bottom of the bottom set and which one was doing well in the middle set and probably going to do pretty well in their GCSE. I honestly wouldn’t have had any kind of idea.

But being kept on for spelling practice is pretty sad . DS normally gets 10/10 for his spellings but after the latest period of home learning got really bad results for a few weeks (as in like 3/10.. 4/10…). I am really grateful that the teacher didn’t mention it even once to him or to us (although I knew). They just let him get on with things and get back used to school again and then eventually results went back to 10s every week. I think if a teacher had sat him down and said his results weren’t very good that week it would have been really counter productive and probably would have made him sad and embarrassed.

My point is in the real world someone needs to be last, someone needs to be slowest, someone needs to be less able in a particular field than the next

You can still have some dc do well and shine etc you can just scrap the one thing that has a negative impact on some. It means they are more likely to stick with it which is good for their fitness and health.

What is the goal of school PE though and what other skills are being taught alongside the actual physical movement?
Is it to encourage movement and exercise in the moment, or harbour a lifelong interest in sports, or to teach a sport/skill so it can be played. Or is it to encourage competition and leadership and dealing with our own and other people's strengths and weaknesses. Is it a combination of all of t he above and more.
It all depends on what we as a society wish to achieve , and whether we want to reflect life and society as it is and teach children to cope with it, or promote different values. These were just some of my thoughts, but to answer your question I 'd base whether to speak to school on if this situation appears to be occasionally or routine and the effects it was having on my child.

Hmm. I really don't agree with the teacher getting the kids to do this..

However..

ANY way you do it , there will be a kid who is 'last' Either their name is read out last, or if you wrote it down, there'll be a child at the bottom of the list.

How can you do it so no child is read out last? Genuine question..

@appleturnovers yes i think its better by ability like its done in all other subjects but the general consensus is not using ability in sports and its unfair in the kids
Kids are not stupid they generally know there strengths and weaknesses and also that of their peers
What would be better is that we teach that all of us are different and thats fine and that we are all good at somethings and not so good at others
At ds school we had parents complain their child wasn't picked for the school team etc and that everyone should be picked etc and your not allowed to have an A and B team in sports teams now

@thewhatsit they know the results within their classes and they are fully aware of what the top set / bottom set is
They have work read out in class that may not be to standard of others
So it happens across school
Mine just knew that some things they were not good at and we had the moto at home as long as you tried your best thats all that matters
The new reading and tests is a whole competition thing and its clear kids have failed tests as they often sit them in a room together

@CoastalWave

Hmm. I really don't agree with the teacher getting the kids to do this..

However..

ANY way you do it , there will be a kid who is 'last' Either their name is read out last, or if you wrote it down, there'll be a child at the bottom of the list.

How can you do it so no child is read out last? Genuine question..

So many posters are using the 'well, someone has to be last' argument. But can people really not see the difference between a child coming last in a race or a test (for example), and having your peers decide/choose/single you out as the worst, and all the judgement, sneering and bullying that goes with it? To basically have your peers point at you and say 'you are complete shit and the very last person I will choose to have on my team'. This isn't a child being aware of their shortcomings/lack of ability. This is a child being singled out by their classmates as unwanted and crap. And condoned by the teachers.

The posters saying that this kind of system teaches resilience and that someone has to be last are missing the point of education spectacularly.

Yes, someone has to be last, but if the child in question is unhappy about being last, they should be taught how to do the sport better so as not to be last. In other words, better technique, or a better handle on their nerves, or specific exercises to improve hand-eye coordination. In every other subject the kids who don't do well are (ideally) taught how to get better, not just consigned to being last and ignored.

And if the child in question doesn't care about being last and doesn't enjoy the sport, they shouldn't be forced to go through the rigmarole of having to participate but should be introduced to different sports or exercises that might be more up their street.

@gannett they can't just do a sport that each kids like they don't have enough teachers , they go through different sports throughout the year , some they will like some they won't

@Somethingsnappy
I agree that there is a difference, and that is mainly because in general most other subjects are not taught as part of a competition. In English lesson children can hear other students' work, it may be objectively better or worse, but it won't have any outcome on what a single student has written. In maths whether a child on your table has answered correctly doesn't change your own score.
The thing is this is how society often promotes movement and exercise. A game or tournament to motivate people, where there is clearly a winner and a loser. The thing is, to win a game you need to be better and therefore it's the whole set up that literally encourages children to not want their less able peers in team games. I feel that if you are rubbish at something, but it's an individual activity, it takes the pressure off, so activities like badminton, tennis or even athletics don't have this added stress.

@Somethingsnappy but its happened once it my not happen again and it my be another kid
A good teacher would change who does the picking as well so it won't always be the same kids
Kids pick some to go to parties and not others etc , so we do also have to teach them resilience
If it happens to her son again then I would being it up but it could be a one off

[quote worriedatthemoment]@appleturnovers yes i think its better by ability like its done in all other subjects but the general consensus is not using ability in sports and its unfair in the kids
Kids are not stupid they generally know there strengths and weaknesses and also that of their peers
What would be better is that we teach that all of us are different and thats fine and that we are all good at somethings and not so good at others
At ds school we had parents complain their child wasn't picked for the school team etc and that everyone should be picked etc and your not allowed to have an A and B team in sports teams now [/quote]
Exactly dc know anyway. They are not stupid.

So what is the benefit of choosing teams this way?

There are only negatives for the last picked and this may put them off exercise and sports. Don’t you think that’s a pity?

I actually thought this method of choosing teams was done away with years ago

I did too. All a teacher needs to do is A B A B A B all the As in a team, all the Bs in a team - all random and no element of choice by pupils.

At my son's secondary school they split the kids into two groups so the more athletic kids were together but it was done by the teacher, and a 50-50 split is ok - it's being left until last or nearly last which isn't ok.

@wishtotravel do you think children are always kind though when someone does poorly in a test ? Because they are not , coming bottom in A test also can be hard and its treated like a competition also
But then lifes a competition , you go for a job your competing against someone else
Its always sports that are blamed and other subjects brushed aside
Schools will cover many sports over the year both team and individual and team sports can actually teach a lot as well

Really struggling to think of ANY time during my adult life where I have been made 100% aware in a humiliating and public fashion, that I am not wanted as a member of a team.

I'd love to know exactly what normal adult life experiences being picked last every. single. week. to jeers and groans and swearing and abusive language as made me resilient about?

Granted I haven't applied for a job in a while - is it the norm now that you all stand lined up against a fence and two employees of the company take turns to pick and go 'OH NO NOT WIDDLIN' URRRGH SHE'S SO FAAAAAAAAT'...

It's really easy to tell in this thread who was popular or sporty in school - you have noooo fucking idea do you. Not a clue.

If the people who I assume are reasonably between late 20's to probably 60+ are telling you it was ritualized bullying, an aversive, humiliating experience that has stuck with them several decades - believe them, why the fuck would they lie?

@MarshaBradyo on this occasion its been once , maybe the teacher will pick those who were last to be the ones who pick next time
I personally would wait and see how it unfolds before going in on the first occasion

@WiddlinDiddlin he hasn't been picked last every week its once

@WiddlinDiddlin when you go for a job if you don't get it you know others have been picked over you ??
If same kid every week then yes it needs to change but this was once and I would wait and see how teacher deals with it next time before speaking up
But even in lessons they sometimes say pick a partner or a group of three etc its not just sport

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Somethingsnappy but its happened once it my not happen again and it my be another kid
A good teacher would change who does the picking as well so it won't always be the same kids
Kids pick some to go to parties and not others etc , so we do also have to teach them resilience
If it happens to her son again then I would being it up but it could be a one off [/quote]
Although this is true to some extent, it's not true for all the children. There will be some who are picked last sometimes, but not always, but others who simply always get chosen last. Then, when it's their turn to choose, everyone who gets picked by that child groans at having to join their team. These are the ones who may end up irreversible damaged by it.

There is a reason it is considered very bad practice now.

@WiddlinDiddlin, well said, you're quite right! And thank you for the giggle too.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@WiddlinDiddlin when you go for a job if you don't get it you know others have been picked over you ??
If same kid every week then yes it needs to change but this was once and I would wait and see how teacher deals with it next time before speaking up
But even in lessons they sometimes say pick a partner or a group of three etc its not just sport [/quote]
You know yes, but not in a public, humiliating way! Plus, you are one of a few that didn't get the job, not the only one. Or told in front of everyone that you are the very last candidate they'd choose!

There is a reason it is considered very bad practice now.

It’s odd how it’s held on to by some with little benefit and many downsides.

The dc good at sport will still know and be able to perform without this element.

This happened to dd recently , she had just joined high school. Was last to be picked then one girl started shouting at the others that she would HAVE to pick dd then but why couldn’t they ‘volunteer’ to pick her instead and it all got a bit unpleasant and dd had walked off back into school and refused to go back to the lesson.
Dd has disabilities and had come home upset then the school had phoned to let us know about the incident

It really really upset me 😞