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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS Last one picked in PE

483 replies

GoldenLightNights · 09/02/2022 22:32

AIBU to contact the teacher with regards to this:

DS is 9, he’s a wonderful child, great at all things science and maths related but not so much at sports. He plays football outside of school for one of the lower ability teams and sort of enjoys it, he isn’t forced to play or anything like that.

Anyway today at school he had PE, we’ve never had any issues before but today for some reason the teacher let two boys pick teams and my son was the last to be picked. He is quite upset especially as one of the boys doing the picking is a close friend.
Anyway I find the idea of letting other children pick teams horrendous and if not my son some child will be picked last. I actually thought this method of choosing teams was done away with years ago!
I want to contact the teacher to ask if he would consider adopting a new approach to team selection. My husband says I’m jumping the gun and to wait to see if it happens again…… so what do you think?
He was properly upset this evening 😢

OP posts:
Topseyt · 10/02/2022 09:34

@AndAnotherNewOne

It is unfair but I think you are massively over reacting. "Ritual humiliation"? No, it really isn't, just poor practice.
No, it absolutely IS ritual humiliation.

It happened to me every single week in school PE. Weekly and always in much the same way, therefore it was a ritual.it WAS humiliating.

I'm 55 now and have never forgotten how damaging it was, and the feelings of worthlessness it caused.

It is certainly bad practice, I agree there. However, it is bad practice BECAUSE it causes humiliation and bullying.

OP, I would say something to the school. Why wait for him to be humiliated again? This is an archaic and cruel practice which should have gone out with the ark.

BogRollBOGOF · 10/02/2022 09:37

What is it about MN and resilience?
Resilience comes from being guided to get through knockbacks and building experience and the confidence of knowing you've managed previous experiences, not being left to flounder and told to get on with it. Especially with a public audience.

Being ritually last taught me (at the time) that I'm shit at sport, effort is futile and sporty people are nasty bitches anyway. Fortunately 30 years on, I have developed and even have a naturally sporty friend. Where PE teachers taught me sweet fuck all, a mobile phone app taught me to run, 1:1 lessons taught me to swim, and if I have a sufficiently pumped up ball and no hostile audience, I can sometimes pull off throwing catching and bouncing. It turns out that I'm actually wonderfully average and not as inept as I was made to believe.
DS has (inherited?) Dyspraxia and long before diagnosis, he's been involved in individual sporting activities to give him an adequate foundation at physical skills to avoid social suicide. Handy as it turns out he also has ASD so struggles with the social side of popular sports. He also has difficulties with some academic aspects of the curiculum.

Picking teams was a ritual. The members of the school teams got to choose and it inevitably whittled down to the final 3 and the looks and muttering started. The final 3 would be my friend with a disability, then my socially awkward (and probably autitistic) friend and by default me. At the sight of the 3 of us, they knew which one would be lumped with me and you could read the realisation in their faces. Then in order of preference I'd be lumped with substitute, goal keeper or wing defence. I never played centre, ever. Because I was shit in my first term at PE, I was shit at the end because I ended up with the least practice, least experience of different positions and the worst maintained equipment.

There was so little actual teaching and learning involved, and often the nastiness spilled into breaks or lunchtimes.

Being last occsionally and a relatively even spread of people experiencing it is not the issue, but it rarely unfolds that way, and this is why it's poor practice.

Somethingsnappy · 10/02/2022 09:39

@Shoxfordian

I was last to be picked because I have no hand eye co-ordination but I’m 36, I’m over it

Yabu

Ah, that's OK then. OP's child will be over the humiliation and sadness by the time they're 36. No probs, eh?
ElftonWednesday · 10/02/2022 09:44

I wasn't picked last in PE, but I was probably one of the later ones to be picked. I've always loved sport- watching and taking part- but was more enthusiastic than able. School nearly killed that love for me, PE is supposed to be Physical Education. It shouldn't be about who is best at hockey or rounders, it should be about encouraging life long healthy physical activity, about how to look after your body by moving it in an enjoyable way.

I wasn't great at team sport, my head was in the clouds and I can't read a game or anticipate what other players are doing when I'm on the pitch. Plus I was never really taught how to, PE teachers were only interested in those with a natural talent. But after leaving school I did the London Marathon and have done several half marathons and 10ks. Again, I'm not an elite athlete and was always somewhere in the middle. Nowadays I'm more into yoga - something you can actually still get better at in mid life! I'm no Adrienne Mischler but I'm probably one of the stronger and more flexible people in my class. But I'm not competing against anyone and it has made me a calmer and more peaceful person, and hopefully a healthier one.

Somethingsnappy · 10/02/2022 09:44

As many teachers on here have pointed out, this is appalling practise. OP. I won't go into the reasons as PPs have already outlined them perfectly. Yes, I'd definitely say something. I'd ask them why they are using archaic methods when it is now recognised as very bad practise, especially as it is well recognised now that this can affect children's confidence into adulthood. I would simply ask them this question and see how they respond. I wonder if the head teacher knows.

bangaverage · 10/02/2022 09:49

Resilience doesn't seem to be something people aspire to or want to instil in their child anymore.

ElftonWednesday · 10/02/2022 09:50

Resilience doesn't seem to be something people aspire to or want to instil in their child anymore

Nonsense. Some people just believe it's better to instil it with stability, consistency, love and kindness rather than bullying and throwing them to the wolves.

MarshaBradyo · 10/02/2022 09:51

@bangaverage

Resilience doesn't seem to be something people aspire to or want to instil in their child anymore.
This isn’t a good way to do it, there are many others things that dc will learn it from

Why do you think it’s the right way?

Somethingsnappy · 10/02/2022 09:52

@AnEpisodeOfEastenders

Do you think the parents of those who are better at sport contact the school when their child comes last in a maths or science test? You can't fight your sons battles - accept that he's better academically than physically and explain to him it's OK to be last sometimes.
Except the whole class do not know who comes last in a test, or at least, they don't get to pick who does. Can you really not see the difference?
ElftonWednesday · 10/02/2022 09:54

One way to teach resilience is teaching from a young age what is normal and acceptable behaviour and what isn't, so that they become confident and assertive and recognise bullying when they see it. This is not normal and acceptable behaviour from this teacher. You don't have to have been bullies to build resilience, in fact it often means the opposite, that people become insecure in many areas of their lives because of it. Perhaps they would have become confident and resilient people had their parents had their backs and challenged the bullying.

MarshaBradyo · 10/02/2022 09:58

@AnEpisodeOfEastenders

Do you think the parents of those who are better at sport contact the school when their child comes last in a maths or science test? You can't fight your sons battles - accept that he's better academically than physically and explain to him it's OK to be last sometimes.
Most dc know what they are good at or not they don’t need team picking to reinforce it or to make them feel awful.

You are not comparing like with like either as there isn’t the same team picking based on aptitude for maths or science. If there was you would probably turn those dc further off learning.

The worst part is how much dc need sport and exercise and encouragement today - not further put off it (obesity rising and online more attractive).

AnEpisodeOfEastenders · 10/02/2022 10:03

@ElftonWednesday

You seem to be deliberately missing the obvious point I am making

You seem to have total ignorance of the entire topic, and have just come here to give off at parents, as many posters do.

Being last doesn't mean you have a learning disability - surprised it was your default go to response and seems to be an ignorant view to have.
Topseyt · 10/02/2022 10:06

@bangaverage

Resilience doesn't seem to be something people aspire to or want to instil in their child anymore.
Bollocks.

Humiliation doesn't, in most cases, build resilience. It taught me to hate sport for a very long time and to want to avoid it.

I am fairly resilient in all other areas of my life, thank you very much. That was in spite of the ritual humiliation of school PE, not because of it.

Crikey, when I look back at our school PE lessons and the things we were expected to put up with, especially in secondary school, I'd even go so far as to say they were at least borderline abusive. Especially if your face just didn't fit.

appleturnovers · 10/02/2022 10:20

Most dc know what they are good at or not they don’t need team picking to reinforce it or to make them feel awful. - @MarshaBradyo

Exactly. This idea that if we don't publicly humiliate the kids who are crap at sports they'll go around thinking they're the next David Beckham is absolutely ludicrous.

hannahh82x · 10/02/2022 10:21

Any other Scottish MN users remember the hell of social dancing?

For those unfamiliar, about six weeks before Christmas P.E. is replaced with ceilidh dancing. Boys and girls stand at either side of the hall and have to choose a dance partner. There was always a mad rush for the more popular kids and horrible arguments over who got stuck with the sweaty-handed. I really hope they don't still do this!

UnUdderOne · 10/02/2022 10:25

@Petsop

Think you are helicoptering here. When you are academically bright as it sounds like your son is, he gets to be great in the classroom several times a week. Top set. Great grades. Better life prospects. Other kids in his class will spend all their time in the classroom not being the bright ones - and don’t they know it. Streamed into the bottom set, never getting more than a C even with their biggest effort. Being made fun of for being the ‘thick ones.’

On the sports pitch, sometimes this is those kids time to shine. And your sons turn to feel what it’s like to not be the best and how to treat others. Needs to work both ways.

From someone who was shit academically but a natural sportswoman :)

Yes but they are not humiliated by their peers in that way.
ElftonWednesday · 10/02/2022 10:26

Being last doesn't mean you have a learning disability - surprised it was your default go to response and seems to be an ignorant view to have

But it might, and yes, if my DDs started coming last in maths tests when previously they usually did better then I would speak to the teacher. In fact most parents wouldn't even have a choice as the school would be speaking to them.

So, what actually was your point other than a completely irrelevant straw man argument in support of teachers being able to bully pupils? As others have pointed out to you, a maths test is not an analogy to being picked last in PE. Perhaps you could explain it more clearly, if you remember what the point was yourself, as in spite of my post-graduate education I don't seem to be understanding what your point actually is. If there even is one. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

Somethingsnappy · 10/02/2022 10:27

What have you decided to do OP?

Maray1967 · 10/02/2022 10:32

I think it’s right that the academic kids know that other kids are stronger in sport, art etc - that is a good lesson to learn. But there is no need to have kids pick teams - I was usually the next to last to be picked back in the early 80s. I’m astonished to read that it’s still going on in some schools.
As PPs have said, teachers sort out academic sets and PE teachers should sort out teams either randomly or on ability. If randomly it should be done quickly- a, b, a, b etc with no time allowed for moaning about who is in the team.

ElftonWednesday · 10/02/2022 10:36

I think it’s right that the academic kids know that other kids are stronger in sport, art etc - that is a good lesson to learn

It's also a good lesson to learn that many people don't particularly excel at anything at school but may find out what they are good at much later. Some kids are both academic and sporty. Some are one or the other. An awful lot aren't particularly strong in either direction.

Maray1967 · 10/02/2022 10:41

Yes, that’s a good point.
At my school there were a couple of obnoxious kids who let everyone know how good they were in maths etc - not being picked first for hockey was some kind of adjustment at least. This thread brought back memories.

Sportslady44 · 10/02/2022 10:43

definitely is not right teacher should choose teams,

Have a word now. V damaging to self esteem.

Pinkyantelope · 10/02/2022 10:43

@SquirrelG

I was always picked last! I didn’t care, my talents were in dance but definitely not anything that required a ball. It didn’t affect me OP, in fact I laugh about it today!

It didn't bother me either. I knew I was hopeless at sport so being picked last (or almost last) was something I expected. It hasn't affected my life at all.

But don't you have the empathy to realise that not everyone is as resilient as you are? And if they're not, it doesn't toughen them up to be humiliated, it just makes them more vulnerable.

And I was the sporty child so never it experienced this but can still see it's appalling practice.

I do agree with competition and that sporty kids should get a chance to shine, but not like this. There are school teams and sports days that allow sporty kids to show their ability, not the ritual humiliation of not being picked like this. OP definitely speak to the head about this.

SueSaid · 10/02/2022 10:46

'As PPs have said, teachers sort out academic sets and PE teachers should sort out teams either randomly or on ability'

Exactly! Sets according to ability are fine both in proper lessons and PE but the kids shouldn't pick them.

CocoCookieCream · 10/02/2022 10:48

OP, you sound like a right snowflake.

It used to happen when I was a kid and should still happen now.

Because to a degree it reflects real life and does teach kids about social/life skills. And kids also need to learn to cope with being picked last, and/or improving their standing to not be picked last all the time.