Primary school children to wear indoor shoes?

[MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]

I've just followed a group of parents/children/dogs on the school run. I go to my daughter's house in my car and then I walk her daughter to school (with her sons in a double buggy).

I saw two children in front of us tread in the same fresh pile of dog dirt. It was in the tread of their footwear and up the sides.

I followed them all the way to school and I saw them walk into school with the mess still on their shoes. There were at least twelve dogs at the school this morning.

The last 100 yards or so of pavement before the school are covered with heaps of dog mess.

I sometimes have to walk on the road (no footpath on the other side of the road) with the double buggy as it's impossible to avoid going through it.

Children on scooters and bikes trail through it and take it in to the school playground. Children will tread in these traces and take them into the class.

Afterwards, I have to fold the double buggy and load into my car, hoping that there's no dog mess going in the car. I often wonder when I'm putting shopping bags in the boot, whether there's any traces of dog dirt from the pushchair wheels on them.

The children go into school and the first thing they do is sit on the carpet for the register. My granddaughter has told me several times that the teacher has had to ask the teaching assistant to clean someone's shoes because they can all smell dog dirt.

Obviously children put their hands on the carpet and then on lots of different resources in the class. Children do not wash their hands after sitting on the carpet. Traces of dog dirt are being spread far and wide.

Some schools have a policy of changing to indoor shoes in the cloakroom to avoid this problem.

So the AIBU is that: should all primary schools have an in door shoe policy?

I'm a retired primary school teacher - the schools I worked in had this policy.

My granddaughter has just returned to school today after being off Friday, Monday, Tuesday due to a stomach bug. It's her fourth one this academic year. The first time it happened she was in hospital for two nights and had to have ondansetron to stop the sickness. She lost a significant amount of weight and hasn't put it back on (she wasn't 'big' to begin with) and after this last bout she's looking very frail and bony. I'm beginning to think there's something deeply concerning about the state of the classroom floors that children are sat on, several times a day. I'm not convinced that every episode is viral.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme - can I ask how many children are in a class?

I don't know many schools where children still sit on the carpet in key stage 2 (7 +) while is not to far away from examples people give from around the world.

I think the carpet thing is a red herring anyway, teachers should be able to organise the class the way that works for them as long as children are safe and learning. What people need to do it pick up their dog mess.

Italiandreams it varies obviously but at primary around 25 children (smallest class size allowed in our area is 17 otherwise they have to merge, largest allowed is 32 but in practice I never encountered either of those class sizes when my 3 were at primary - always twenty something. My eldest was in a "big" class of 29 children and the other two in classes of 27 and 26.

I realise that's slightly smaller on average than the UK but think the dynamic depends upon something more complex than whether there are 26 or 31 children. Actually my eldest's class was according to every teacher an exemplary one in terms of behaviour while my youngest's class was repeatedly stigmatized as difficult and loud despite having a couple less children. They all went to the same one form entry primary school.

I can't see councils being able to provide enough street cleaners.

And I can never see the attitude of dog owners changing. Because, according to them - they all pick dog mess up.

• we have a sister school 5 miles away and technically they're all one school - should numbers in any intake be too big or small they're meant to balance/ merge the classes. In practice apparently the last time it happened was in the 1980s when my neighbor in her 40s was at the school though!

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme I was just wondering logistically how you would manage to get 30 4 year olds listening without sitting together. Not saying it can't be done, just wondering how others do it. Carpet works well , especially big classes in small classrooms. Genuinely interested in alternatives.

Italiandreams primary school is from age 6 or 7 here and they absolutely 100% do sit still and listen. Children who aren't ready can stay back another year at kindergarten. One of our kids who would have been young for his year needed that - actually about 1/3 of kids wait a year to start almost universally through parental preference. There's no stigma and he's flying at secondary and slightly younger than mid range age wise for his year as so many other kids fail and repeat years at secondary.

Kindergarten is completely different because they have 3 teachers per class (or minimum one trained teacher and two qualified nursery nurses) and its almost all group work and free play. They do sit still on a circle of tiny chairs for 20-30 minutes every morning though. Parents are allowed to sit in on their own child's birthday and they absolutely do sit still then. They do all sorts many British people say 3 year olds can't do though, including using real woodworking tools in group work and sorting out their own real glass glasses and china plates for snack and washing them up (all child height cupboards and sinks).

@Italiandreams

My child spends most of the time rolling in the dirt, sitting on the carpet is the least of his problems!

Same.

We're always digging in the garden together so often covered in mud.

Mud washed off.

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea the post is about dog poo not mud.

Mud is good. Dog poo is shit... literally and on every metaphorical level and carries none of the benign immune system building, creative benefits of mud!

I teach 6 and 7 year olds so absolutely know they can sit still and listen. It's the 4 year olds that legally only need one teacher to 30 children where I think the carpet is used much more. It sounds like a very different set up to this country. Much better in my opinion but still completely different. Children can do lots more of the investment into adults to support them and the right resources are there. Sadly that is not what many places are working with in England .

This is why they don't allow dogs on school grounds where I live.

Also, we have strict by-laws wrt picking up poo.

When I was in primary school (Ireland, 1970s) we had cubbies along the corridors with hooks for outerwear and a drawstring bag in which we kept our indoor shoes or slippers. We changed footwear when we arrived in school, when we went out to play and came back, and when we went home. It worked well.

They do all sorts many British people say 3 year olds can't do though, including using real woodworking tools in group work and sorting out their own real glass glasses and china plates for snack and washing them up (all child height cupboards and sinks).

Sounds the absolute norm to me. In fact if we don't have full China and glass we get pulled up on it on an inspection. Tricky when you have dc with asn who like to throw things around. We also have a large woodwork bench and use screws, hammers and nails. All this is a good reason why slippers, socks etc aren't really ideal.

One other thing, if kids have "indoor shoes" they need to be actual trainers or whatever that are simply assigned for indoor purposes. Not slippers. Slippers lack support and are not good for your feet, and are a falling and tripping hazard, especially on stairs. They are not OK for wearing all day.

We sat at our desks all day every day in primary school. We ate snack and lunch in the classroom, had crafts, art, singing, and library time in the classroom, and really only walked anywhere when we went out to play after eating lunch. The only class we didn't do in the classroom was gym. For gym we had gym trainers and we changed into shorts but wore our school blouses over them.