Primary school children to wear indoor shoes?

[MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]

I've just followed a group of parents/children/dogs on the school run. I go to my daughter's house in my car and then I walk her daughter to school (with her sons in a double buggy).

I saw two children in front of us tread in the same fresh pile of dog dirt. It was in the tread of their footwear and up the sides.

I followed them all the way to school and I saw them walk into school with the mess still on their shoes. There were at least twelve dogs at the school this morning.

The last 100 yards or so of pavement before the school are covered with heaps of dog mess.

I sometimes have to walk on the road (no footpath on the other side of the road) with the double buggy as it's impossible to avoid going through it.

Children on scooters and bikes trail through it and take it in to the school playground. Children will tread in these traces and take them into the class.

Afterwards, I have to fold the double buggy and load into my car, hoping that there's no dog mess going in the car. I often wonder when I'm putting shopping bags in the boot, whether there's any traces of dog dirt from the pushchair wheels on them.

The children go into school and the first thing they do is sit on the carpet for the register. My granddaughter has told me several times that the teacher has had to ask the teaching assistant to clean someone's shoes because they can all smell dog dirt.

Obviously children put their hands on the carpet and then on lots of different resources in the class. Children do not wash their hands after sitting on the carpet. Traces of dog dirt are being spread far and wide.

Some schools have a policy of changing to indoor shoes in the cloakroom to avoid this problem.

So the AIBU is that: should all primary schools have an in door shoe policy?

I'm a retired primary school teacher - the schools I worked in had this policy.

My granddaughter has just returned to school today after being off Friday, Monday, Tuesday due to a stomach bug. It's her fourth one this academic year. The first time it happened she was in hospital for two nights and had to have ondansetron to stop the sickness. She lost a significant amount of weight and hasn't put it back on (she wasn't 'big' to begin with) and after this last bout she's looking very frail and bony. I'm beginning to think there's something deeply concerning about the state of the classroom floors that children are sat on, several times a day. I'm not convinced that every episode is viral.

I see the hygiene benefits, obviously, but I worry that it would further disadvantage parents who struggle to provide one pair of decent shoes, never mind two. Also those children who come from homes where any extraneous needs for school (PE kit, pencil cases, decent lunchbox) are ignored. I remember in the 80s when we were taught in a sopping wet portacabin and the teacher decided we all needed a pair of indoor shoes that would live at school. My mother flatly refused. Said teacher lost her rag after the first week of asking "where are your indoor shoes" and sent me flying across the classroom. Obviously that wouldn't happen now, but I do still remember the sting of being the kid sliding around in socks because I didn't have indoor shoes, just as I remember being punished for not having a PE kit and jeered at for bringing my lunch in an old bead bag.

think indoor shoes added to the mix is just going to take up time that teachers just don't have

Most 4 year olds can change their shoes without help, and quickly slip out of their
Outdoor shoes into plimsolls. They do PE 3x week and manage without the teacher helping. I don’t think it would take up more time than taking off/putting on coats, gloves etc, sunhats in summer?

The thought of all the bacteria and potentially toxoplasmosis trodden into carpet corners, which kids put their hands on, is horrific!

I worry that it would further disadvantage parents who struggle to provide one pair of decent shoes, never mind two

Most teachers have a box of spare plimsolls which kids donate when they outgrow. And they’re about £2 in Asda or Primark (and essential for PE).

Also very few children have only one pair of school shoes these days, they’re cheap to buy from supermarkets or eBay and essential for when you can’t get them dry overnight.

Schools are 4+ years. A 4 year old should be able to take Velcro shoes off and add plimsoll on very easily themselves

Like I said, here you buy the plimsolls from the school, and anyone needs will be given a pair for free. They charge €3.50 each, but the plimsolls cost the school about €2 so the extra basically contributes to those who can’t or didn’t pay.

They also have wellingtons you have to buy the same as they use weekly for forest school. Again they stay at school, and anyone who needs is given a pair for free.

Sam with morning snack. You pay something like €5 per term towards morning snack. But anyone who hasn’t paid will still get the same snack

It’s not the 1960s anymore, schools shouldn’t be making children feel bad for lack of money or things

I think it would be brilliant if schools adopted an indoor shoe policy, it works well in Japan and it’s not only in schools, outdoor shoes are prohibited in certain work places, restaurants and places of worship/historical importance.
The school do really need to get the council to try to combat the dog poo issue, it’s absolutely disgusting that people don’t pick up after their dogs especially around schools, it only take a minute to clear it up!

Obviously people should pick up after their dogs.
But i also dont understand why schools in the Uk dont have indoor shoes. Its completely normal where I live and it causes no issues. School starts at 9am. First bell rings at 8.55 telling kids to head inside. When it rings again at 9 everyone is expected to sit on their chair ready to begin. Its never an issue at all. Teachers of lower grades remind kids to change before entering and exiting the classroom. It was already like that 25 years ago when i was in school and it never caused any issues.

My dc's state school has indoor shoes. So some have this policy. Not sure if all children follow it though.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

think indoor shoes added to the mix is just going to take up time that teachers just don't have

Most 4 year olds can change their shoes without help, and quickly slip out of their
Outdoor shoes into plimsolls. They do PE 3x week and manage without the teacher helping. I don’t think it would take up more time than taking off/putting on coats, gloves etc, sunhats in summer?

The thought of all the bacteria and potentially toxoplasmosis trodden into carpet corners, which kids put their hands on, is horrific!

I mean more the having to help kids look for missing shoes.

We have indoor shoes for school. Honestly costs a fortune everytime a child goes up a size. Outdoor shoes, indoor shoes, gym shoes, outdoor pe shoes. I buy black geox trainers for school shoes and outdoor P.E. Bright coloured obvious trainers for indoors and indoor P.E. as they seem to go missing a lot and I want them to spot them. I refuse to buy lots of school shoes only for them to spend the majority of time in ill fitting plimsoles.

Indoor shoes are a pain the backside. A school I taught at had them and we got rid of them. It eats up time before and after break as well as lunch time (unless you don't mind complaints from parents about their child missing out on break). That's before the children who can't find their shoes because it's been kicked under a bench, or they just need help or all the shoes look the same or somebody is accidentally wearing their shoes(this applies to older children too).

It adds expense for parents (even a couple of quid is too much if you don't have it) or the school which can't afford it.

Some schools get around this by just wearing socks indoors but it only takes one drawing pin or loose staple to put an end to it plus the issue of having a school full of children stood in their socks in the rain should there be a fire alarm.

Plus there needs to be space to store shoes and change shoes. Something many schools just don't have.

Now, none of those things are insurmountable if there was a real need or drive for it. However, there would need to be a recognition of the time taken out of the school day and the costs.

@soapboxqueen

I agree - I thought that indoor shoes caused more palaver. I've seen children deliberately swapping/hiding other children's footwear.

It would be much easier if children weren't made to sit on the floor.

This would make assemblies impossible.

[quote MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]@soapboxqueen

I agree - I thought that indoor shoes caused more palaver. I've seen children deliberately swapping/hiding other children's footwear.

It would be much easier if children weren't made to sit on the floor.

This would make assemblies impossible. [/quote]
I've taught with carpet space and without. Pros and cons to both.

With regards to assembly time, the hall is used for PE anyway so it's going to have shoes and children touching it anyway. It's usually easier to clean though.

We changed our shoes before we went into the classroom. Everybody had a pair of plimsolls or trainers that were for indoors only. It didn't take that much time.

We didn't sit on the floor either even though we had clean shoes. We sat on benches for assembly.

@womaninatightspot

At my friend's school (she's a head teacher) the children wear slippers. Children there don't wear plimsolls because indoor PE is bare foot and outdoor PE, children wear their trainers.

At my granddaughter's school they are still in pandemic mode and go to school once a week in full outdoor PE kit which includes trainers which are worn outside of school/weekends. I don't think they have school trainers and an additional pair for home use at primary level - so just one pair of trainers.

My granddaughter has slippers, school shoes, trainers, wellies (which are bought a size bigger and usually last two years) and a pair of smart shoes. She has two younger brothers who have one pair of shoes each (they don't walk far, mainly in a double buggy outside). Yes - footwear can be expensive but I would think at a push most can afford a pair of plimsolls as indoor shoes for school. They can be purchased for £2.50 in Asda/supermarket. Schools also pass on plimsolls/uniform which has been donated.

When I was teaching I had a pair of plimsolls in every size which were used for children who forgot theirs. If a child was a size I didn't have, I would buy some. Indoor shoes was our policy and children chose to wear their plimsolls. Our head teacher was aware that sitting on the floor could be grimy if children wore outdoor shoes in school. Plus, the school was fully carpeted. I wouldn't want to sit on a carpet that had hundreds of outdoor shoes clomping across it. Urgh.

Our primary always had an indoor shoe policy

My kids used to have to put on indoor shoes when they were in primary school. It was a rural school with a great but muddy play area.

The design of the school was such that each class had its own entrance and lobby area with space for changing shoes and storing them.

It wasn't a big deal for them all to change their shoes when they came in. Their outdoor shoes lasted a lot longer as a result and then inside of the school much cleaner.

I don't remember any issues with either indoor or outdoor shoes going missing.

@BeefSupreme

We didn't sit on the floor either even though we had clean shoes. We sat on benches for assembly.

Our school only had four benches which were used for PE. Year 6 would sit on them in assembly. Although the children at the back of the line would have to sit on the floor (with the squashed peas).

@Rainbowshit

Yes - a more hygienic school is what I would like, in an ideal world - that's what I'm after.

It's a pity that not every parent thinks that it's a priority.

We're talking hundreds of pairs of shoes walking-in contamination every day. Urgh.

Or - no sitting on the floor.

The school I work in had slippers/indoor shoes up until 2020. Teachers hated them so much.
Plimsolls kept getting mixed up as names rubbed off the inside from wearing them.
Children kept slipping their feet into them and walking on the back of them which meant they were falling and the indoor shoes were falling apart.
Sometimes shoes would have to be changed 4-5 times a day. Yard breaks, movement break, pe , daily mile etc. This took ages especially now as extra hand washing is thrown into the mix
At the end of the year we had to throw out bags of leftover slippers and plimsolls that were unclaimed.
Loads storage needed they had drawstring bags but inevitably were only perched on top.

DD primary has a plimsole policy but I have the same argument with them every year. DD has low arches, and wears properly fitted Clarke's shoes which I buy at the start of term (or twice a year if she grows). I'm therefore not having her change into what are effectively slippers with no food support. Every year we have a new class teacher, I have the same argument and never back down. I just don't understand the logic of them being in poorly fitted shoes all day.

@lollipopsandrainbows

DD primary has a plimsole policy but I have the same argument with them every year. DD has low arches, and wears properly fitted Clarke's shoes which I buy at the start of term (or twice a year if she grows). I'm therefore not having her change into what are effectively slippers with no food support. Every year we have a new class teacher, I have the same argument and never back down. I just don't understand the logic of them being in poorly fitted shoes all day.

Low arches are quite common in children up to the age of 10 yrs, foot arches can take up to decade to develop.

Our family has EDS. We all have to be careful about well fitting shoes.

My granddaughter is no different - she is hypermobile. She has to wear a shoe boot to give more ankle support. We try to get Geox when we can. We avoid Clark's. However, we are told that it's fine to wear flat shoes indoors.

We used to have this policy years ago. I can remember wearing pumps/plimsols in thr 1970s at school. But back then schools were far more hygienic and a lot cleaner than they are now anyway

[quote MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]@soapboxqueen

I agree - I thought that indoor shoes caused more palaver. I've seen children deliberately swapping/hiding other children's footwear.

It would be much easier if children weren't made to sit on the floor.

This would make assemblies impossible. [/quote]
As a parent I would be absolutely delighted if the absolutely enormous waste of time that is “assembly” was done away with. Or cut back to once a week with benches (they have the space, just probably not the manpower to stack/unstack daily.) Won’t happen though.

Slightly off topic but this thread is making me reminisce about my primary school days in the Australian tropics. Most kids never wore shoes at all. Ever. Not to school, not to the shops, not when riding your bike around to see friends. I had one pair of shoes that I had to wear to church on Sundays. Very upsetting. We sat in the floor at school and didn’t get diseases or veruccas.. Perfectly middle-class area. Great times!