Primary school children to wear indoor shoes?

[MyOtherCarIsAPorsche]

I've just followed a group of parents/children/dogs on the school run. I go to my daughter's house in my car and then I walk her daughter to school (with her sons in a double buggy).

I saw two children in front of us tread in the same fresh pile of dog dirt. It was in the tread of their footwear and up the sides.

I followed them all the way to school and I saw them walk into school with the mess still on their shoes. There were at least twelve dogs at the school this morning.

The last 100 yards or so of pavement before the school are covered with heaps of dog mess.

I sometimes have to walk on the road (no footpath on the other side of the road) with the double buggy as it's impossible to avoid going through it.

Children on scooters and bikes trail through it and take it in to the school playground. Children will tread in these traces and take them into the class.

Afterwards, I have to fold the double buggy and load into my car, hoping that there's no dog mess going in the car. I often wonder when I'm putting shopping bags in the boot, whether there's any traces of dog dirt from the pushchair wheels on them.

The children go into school and the first thing they do is sit on the carpet for the register. My granddaughter has told me several times that the teacher has had to ask the teaching assistant to clean someone's shoes because they can all smell dog dirt.

Obviously children put their hands on the carpet and then on lots of different resources in the class. Children do not wash their hands after sitting on the carpet. Traces of dog dirt are being spread far and wide.

Some schools have a policy of changing to indoor shoes in the cloakroom to avoid this problem.

So the AIBU is that: should all primary schools have an in door shoe policy?

I'm a retired primary school teacher - the schools I worked in had this policy.

My granddaughter has just returned to school today after being off Friday, Monday, Tuesday due to a stomach bug. It's her fourth one this academic year. The first time it happened she was in hospital for two nights and had to have ondansetron to stop the sickness. She lost a significant amount of weight and hasn't put it back on (she wasn't 'big' to begin with) and after this last bout she's looking very frail and bony. I'm beginning to think there's something deeply concerning about the state of the classroom floors that children are sat on, several times a day. I'm not convinced that every episode is viral.

Isn't this like saying women shouldn't walk home alone after dark to stop themselves being attacked?

We should be targeting the dog walkers and making them change their ways, not making kids and schools change.

@UsernameIsNotAvailableRightNow - erm no.
Mud and things are natural, even if not poop, mud, dirt, grit, general outdoor floor grime etc are still filthy

I don’t stop us going in mud. Ds was covered after a trip to the muddy park this morning, but I definitely wouldn’t let him go passed hallway at home with all that on

I agree, basic black plimsolls are not expensive.

@ParadiseLaundry

I agree OP, or even better they should remove their outdoor shoes and remain barefoot inside

Even if everyone was picking up their dog shit, dogs still wee all over the place anyway!

Think of the verrucas!

Joking btw ^^

[quote Caspianberg]@UsernameIsNotAvailableRightNow - erm no.
Mud and things are natural, even if not poop, mud, dirt, grit, general outdoor floor grime etc are still filthy

I don’t stop us going in mud. Ds was covered after a trip to the muddy park this morning, but I definitely wouldn’t let him go passed hallway at home with all that on[/quote]
OP is talking about dog poo though. Which is what I was commenting about.

I would be more concerned about piles of dog mess all over the place. I've never seen a dog in our school playground, or dog mess in the area around it. Maybe the school should say no dogs allowed.

@SartresSoul

DC’s old school made them change into black plimsoles indoors and I know my primary school did too but their current school doesn’t. I think some schools avoid it because it causes mega hassle in the morning when a lot of kids walk in late as it is and with younger years the teachers have to help them change shoes which isn’t ideal.

Maybe they should stop sitting on the floor.

The lateness thing is a ridiculous thing really. It’s amazing how many people just are routinely late for school. I don’t remember it being common when I was at school (although why would I have noticed). But it seems that some people think it’s acceptable to be 10 minutes late for school every morning.

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought in in my sons school. They boys of his class like to play football in a very muddy patch. He comes home with his tracksuit destroyed with mud, I'd hate to think what the classroom is like after their runners.

In secondary, we had to wear slippers, it was a long tíme agó and a School run by nuns. Couldn't be scratching their wooden polished floors.

When I was in primary school (soooo long ago) it seemed to change every couple of years! Some times we HAD to wear our PE shoes, sometimes we HAD to wear slippers (I think this was to discourage kids from going outside in them).

Part of the problem is that shoes go missing and school shoes aren't cheap. If kids are constantly removing outdoor shoes to replace with indoor shoes every time they come in and out for breaks/forest school/outdoor learning etc then I'd bet nearly every child loses at least one shoe every week.

I remember the humiliation of losing a shoe from the cloakroom and having to be the reason that everyone was late out of school and I had to stay behind with the teachers to look for it when the class was gone. They ended up having to call my mum into the school building from the pickup points to explain what had happened and why I was in my PE shoes. But I was also expected to be back in a pair of proper school shoes the next morning so we had a mad dash to the shops to buy some.

Nowadays, kids seem to spend a lot more time outside than inside (certainly at DSs school anyways). Several times a day and nearly a full day every Wednesday for Forest School. I think indoor shoes added to the mix is just going to take up time that teachers just don't have.

The lateness thing is a ridiculous thing really. It’s amazing how many people just are routinely late for school. I don’t remember it being common when I was at school (although why would I have noticed). But it seems that some people think it’s acceptable to be 10 minutes late for school every morning.

TBF I think some schools are responsible for this though.

We're horribly punctual thanks to my anxiety so in the past when DS has been taking the mick brushing his teeth and generally getting his stuff for school, I've told him we'll be late and that's not good. He's told me (he's only 5 btw) that it's fine to be late as we won't get in trouble as he's seen so many kids coming in late almost every day without there being any repercussions. Obviously the kids don't get wrong and all we get is a polite reminder in the weekly newsletter to 'try' and be on-time.

We had an issue with dog mess in our street and surrounding,

Think complaints were made to the council, MPs and local PCSO

Eventually the PCSO would go round and spray paint any dog mess on the pavement to highlight it.... seems mad, but it worked and hasn't been a problem since!

If it's the road the school is in raise it with the office and they will send letters home to remind people to clean up.

@DockOTheBay

I would be more concerned about piles of dog mess all over the place. I've never seen a dog in our school playground, or dog mess in the area around it. Maybe the school should say no dogs allowed.

Dogs are not allowed on the school premises. Pre-covid the dogs were tied to the railings/trees/posts/left with other people while parents take their children up to the class.

The point is, due to the sheer amount of dog heaps around the school, children will be walking the dog mess into school on their shoes every day.

Now, with everyone still having to wait outside the school railings, the dogs wait with children and parents.... and bark, and chase dogs/running children, and jump up at people walking past, and poop and pee.

The school is in a small village, directly on the village green, where all the dogs from the village are exercised/dump their waste. A good half of the children attending, access the school from across the large village green (as their parents can't be bothered to walk around it on the foot paths which are full of dog poop anyway).

@princesssparklepants

We had an issue with dog mess in our street and surrounding,

Think complaints were made to the council, MPs and local PCSO

Eventually the PCSO would go round and spray paint any dog mess on the pavement to highlight it.... seems mad, but it worked and hasn't been a problem since!

If it's the road the school is in raise it with the office and they will send letters home to remind people to clean up.

Good idea - I probably won't contact our MP as he is one of Boris' supporters (BFF) and possibly too busy to deal with dog issues.

I will contact a local PCSO - they actually stand outside our local high school (2 min walk from my home) quite frequently to stop parents parking on the pavement and children riding their bikes on the pavement.

This sounds disgusting.
DD school don't have the space to change shoes but it's not a problem re. Dog mess here.
Do you have a local newspaper you could contact? If they run a story it might shame the council etc into doing something about it.

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

There's a lady doing the school run who is always walking down the road with her son at least 15 mins late. I meet her on the way back to my daughter's house. She does this deliberately to avoid the crowds. (She told me.)

@APurpleSquirrel

This sounds disgusting. DD school don't have the space to change shoes but it's not a problem re. Dog mess here. Do you have a local newspaper you could contact? If they run a story it might shame the council etc into doing something about it.

That's a good shout for the future.

I'll see if my recent requests are dealt with appropriately first.

I once worked in a school where the children all took their shoes off in class and either walked around in socks or slippers. The children really liked it and the carpet always stayed clean. They would put the shoes on to walk down the corridors to the toilets or to go to the hall etc

In my last teaching post, the whole school was carpeted (apart from the hall). I don't know why this happened - came back from the summer holidays and voila - a sea of blue carpet (expensive quality). That's why we had an indoor shoe policy (bane of my life).

Art lessons in particular made me anxious (especially at Christmas when the glitter came out) as the head inspected the carpets regularly.

When walking down the corridors you got several patches of vomit aroma greeting you. Never got rid of some stains.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche

In my last teaching post, the whole school was carpeted (apart from the hall). I don't know why this happened - came back from the summer holidays and voila - a sea of blue carpet (expensive quality). That's why we had an indoor shoe policy (bane of my life).

Art lessons in particular made me anxious (especially at Christmas when the glitter came out) as the head inspected the carpets regularly.

When walking down the corridors you got several patches of vomit aroma greeting you. Never got rid of some stains.

Oof!

Id say carpet is softer on the kids when they fall but school carpets tend to be made of velcro IME so definitely not that

Maybe the school needs to have a 'no dogs on school property' making it clear the dog mess is the issue (unless the kids are just taken to the gate).
I can't see inside shoes working unless they all have a cubby to put their shoes in.
My kids had to sit on the floor until secondary for assemblies - the girls in particular hated it because they wore skirts. Wish schools would get some benches.

@onedayoranother

Yes - yr 6 sit on benches (PE ones) for assembly. Every other child is on the floor in the hall, picking up squashed peas from lunch (and worse). This and other times throughout the day that they sit on the floor in class.

My last school had a row of pigeon holes underneath the coat pegs which accommodated a pair of black pumps/plimsolls/daps but children rarely got a pair of outdoor shoes in them. This resulted in squabbles and delays getting into and out of class (especially in massive fur lined boot season).

I agree with you.

I think we took off shoes in my primary school in the 1990s but could be misremembering. I hate wearing shoes inside and am currently shoeless in my office.

I have noticed children having to dodge dog poo several times on the school runs. I think the onus should be on the government to make our streets cleaner by reducing dog ownership especially in urban areas. Councils should be allocated more money from central government to keep paths clean. You can report dog mess to your local council and I regularly do this, the more people do this the more recognition the problem will get.

It would be great. Indoor shoes would be much more hygenic in primary years and in nurseries as well. When mine were in nursery I suggested it to the manager and got an extensive reply why it is not a good idea, which effectively was "we can't be bothered helping them change". Most kids took off shoes at some point during the day and wore socks in the room, and the socks got quite dirty by the end if the day, so we changed the socks immediately after coming home.