Refuse to provide a reference

[ByMyName]

I own a small business and we provide employment to a small team.

Last year we took on a junior member of staff through a government backed scheme. The scheme reimbursed the business the cost of employing someone who was on UC and at risk of long term unemployment. In turn we provided training and work experience. Win-win.

This particular employee is on a fixed term contract. If it was not a government backed scheme, we would not have kept her for a week.

She was working from home as most of our staff do since covid. She had no childcare provision and her children would scream during staff meeting. She is constantly late and unavailable during working hours. She also had many sick days. Her work is poor and she has shown no improvement despite training and coaching.

Her line manager has had several informal conversations with her. I asked not to push to a formal warning as it was a fixed term contract anyway.

Can I inform the employee that we will not provide her with a reference?

References nowadays say this person worked here from this date to this date. Why wouldn't you?

As above.

References these days tend to just confirm job title and dates of employment, not suitability for the job.

Just provide a basic reference.

You can. I don't understand why you would. She might never ask for one. If she does, you can say no then. Or stick to, we employed x between these dates, as most references are.

The only reason I can see to tell her is, because you see it as a threat and want to threaten her. Either end her contract, or tackle it head-on, or put up with it. "I won't be giving you a reference" is passive aggressive and achieves nothing other than pissing both of you off...

Legally you don't need to provide a reference.

I don't get why you wouldn't though, it seems petty to me to tell her that you won't give her one.
You obviously don't want her working for you anymore so why would you prevent her getting a job elsewhere? It's unlikely she has other references if she came to you on the UC scheme and I'm assuming you know this?
She has kids at home, she wasn't suited to your company - maybe losing that job will be the kick she needs to do better at her next one.

As above, references these days only need to say job title and what dates she worked there. There's no need to lie and say she was a great employee or anything. Why wouldn't you just give the dates/title?

It’s likely you’ll only have to be factual: most places I’ve worked, the only reference requested for new employees of old employers is to confirm X person worked there between X date. Refusing to do that would reflect badly on your company, presuming there’s evidence the employee was employed with you through an approved scheme.

I just don’t feel that she has met the expectations of her position. And while she worked 6 months for us, she did not meet her objectives.

You are right, I can keep it basic.

I asked not to push to a formal warning as it was a fixed term contract anyway.

That's fine but you need to accept the consequences of that- it's unfair to not fulfil the most basic obligations having not given her the chance to improve.

The fact that she was often ill is not an a basis for refusing a reference.

You can. I don't understand why you would. She might never ask for one. If she does, you can say no then.

This ^

However, if the scheme was about trying to get people into work, I don't think you are doing her any favours by not formalising the warning and why the reviews were "informal conversations". Surely in this sort of scheme you need to have formal reviews and point out clearly what is going well, what isn't, and how they can improve it. Otherwise, what was she learning about being employed ? She might have gained some new skill to do with your work, but that is not much use if you can't understand expectations of being in work.

I expect she was forced to do it in order to keep her benefits, despite the fact she had no childcare and was unsuited to the position. Still, she’ll count to some stupid target and be left feeling even more crap than she did six months ago. Not your fault, OP, and thanks for trying, but doesn’t it make you want to weep for the poor bloody woman.

@Kite22

You can. I don't understand why you would. She might never ask for one. If she does, you can say no then.

This ^

However, if the scheme was about trying to get people into work, I don't think you are doing her any favours by not formalising the warning and why the reviews were "informal conversations". Surely in this sort of scheme you need to have formal reviews and point out clearly what is going well, what isn't, and how they can improve it. Otherwise, what was she learning about being employed ? She might have gained some new skill to do with your work, but that is not much use if you can't understand expectations of being in work.

This is a very valid point actually. Thank you to everyone who offered their perspective.

The expectation of the scheme is to give her experience in the work environment.

She still has 2 months with us.

I will ask her line manager to proceed with the written warning as she would have with any other employee.

@HeddaGarbled

I expect she was forced to do it in order to keep her benefits, despite the fact she had no childcare and was unsuited to the position. Still, she’ll count to some stupid target and be left feeling even more crap than she did six months ago. Not your fault, OP, and thanks for trying, but doesn’t it make you want to weep for the poor bloody woman.

You are spot on.

First and last time I ever take part in this scheme!

I’m a petty fucker, but I don’t understand why you’d do this?

She wasn’t suited to your role/company, that’s shit. But why would you present her from ever achieving better because it didn’t work out between you?

Just let it go and issue a one-liner letter that’ll take five minutes to provide, like 99% of employers.

It’s mean to deny a reference for someone who is learning how to work, when you haven’t done your job properly in managing her / setting performance goals in the first place. keep it basic and factual - you only need dates of employment, role title etc

You don’t have to sing her praises but why would you want to make it difficult for her to find future employment? Just confirm that she worked there from X to Y dates.

Firstly I would wait until she asks for a reference. She may well not.

If she does, give the most bog standard you legally have to apply. When I lived in Australia, it had to be the starting and ending date, plus job title.

From that you could add a final paragraph along the lines of ''if you would like further information, I (HR etc) can be contacted during business hours on (business number).

You can add the word confidentially in there somewhere if you wish.

That leaves all personal experiences and thoughts off the letter, employee has what she needs to account for her time, and gives the opportunity for the next employer to contact you directly where you can talk.

We had a call last week for a former employee who used us as a reference as a former employer, he worked with us for a while, but he didn't tell the interviewer he abandoned his employment with us. So we had a chat about that.

^^ used us as a reference as a former employee to a potentially new employer

It sounds like the poor woman is juggling working, keeping UC happy and lack of childcare.
She's obviously struggling. What support have you given her given that she's not costing you anything to employ her? She's on this scheme because she's been out of the workplace for a long time and needs extra support and more training than a regular employee that you actually pay for would.
Why would you kick someone when they are down?

You should treat her like any other employee and give her verbal or written warnings etc. Otherwise you are teaching her that it's ok to carry on like this in the workplace and she will never hold down a job in future!

@ByMyName

I own a small business and we provide employment to a small team.

Last year we took on a junior member of staff through a government backed scheme. The scheme reimbursed the business the cost of employing someone who was on UC and at risk of long term unemployment. In turn we provided training and work experience. Win-win.

This particular employee is on a fixed term contract. If it was not a government backed scheme, we would not have kept her for a week.

She was working from home as most of our staff do since covid. She had no childcare provision and her children would scream during staff meeting. She is constantly late and unavailable during working hours. She also had many sick days. Her work is poor and she has shown no improvement despite training and coaching.

Her line manager has had several informal conversations with her. I asked not to push to a formal warning as it was a fixed term contract anyway.

Can I inform the employee that we will not provide her with a reference?

Its only win win for you. A free employee! Have you ever actually sat down and spoken to the woman to see if a solution could be found? Surely you knew that someone on one of these schemes may need much more support than a regular employee or did you just want 6 months free labour? Back in the 80's I was part of a company who assessed and found placements for unemployed people on training schemes. We had many employers who were fantastic. They would mentor the trainees, support them and work out problems when they cropped up. Inevitably those trainees usually went on to get jobs. The few employers who treated the trainees as cheap labour were very obvious and were very quickly weeded out and told they were not suitable.

From that you could add a final paragraph along the lines of ''if you would like further information, I (HR etc) can be contacted during business hours on (business number).

Don't do this.

I know someone who successfully sued their ex-employer for doing something like this. They managed to get notes from their prospective new employer as references aren't confidential in the UK.

Just give the dates and job title.

You'll put her in a shit situation if you don't provide a reference. All you need to do is confirm the dates that she worked for you and her job role. No opinions about work standard etc. Just factual.

Long term unemployed to trying to start a new job fully remote is a tall order! People struggle to settle into remote roles when they have a lot of workplace experience to fall back on, nevermind with none.

You have hardly upheld your side of the bargain here by failing to manage her performance and writing her off. Formal performance management is about clearly communicating expectations and ensuring staff have the right training/support to change things - it sets out a pathway for improvement. You have denied her that.

If you only give someone vague informal chats, they rarely leave those chats realising how serious matters are or how they should change them. Most people's view is that if it was a serious problem it would have been a serious discussion.

How was she supposed to improve if you failed to communicate to her how serious her conduct was and the consequences of it?

Unless you’ve discussed the issues with her first,you shouldn’t go straight into a formal warning.
Her manager should talk to her about the problems with her performance and sickness, and disruption during meetings. You should have an absence policy you can use regarding her sick days.
Explain to her that these issues could be a problem to any future employer. If she’s been out of the workplace a long time she may not have this awareness.

Regarding the reference a basic worked from date to date is acceptable. You can answer questions about sickness absence and if you would re employ if you are asked, but you should have a policy and give all ex employees the same reference if you are approached. Don’t treat one differently to another. Don’t do the ‘give me a ring’ approach.
You aren’t doing her any favours by just saying you won’t give her a reference. She needs to be made aware of the issues with her performance etc. That is how you will be fulfilling your side of the deal getting a paid employee for six months.

I have worked with many on this type of scheme and some don’t last, you can end their employment as long as you do it all in the correct way. I have also worked with many successfully. You have just ended up with the wrong person, please don’t be put off.

Let me elaborate a little more. The employee has gone through induction and extensive training at a cost to the business. We have policies in place for sick days etc. All issues have been raised with her verbally and actions have been sent to her via email. I don’t want to raise any formal disciplinary as it’s not worth management time as we have decided not to keep her at the end of her contract.

The main issue is she does not have childcare during all of her working hours. She uses the free 30
Hours and the rest of the time she has very young children around the house, who are very noisy. I am not sure how she manages any work with them around to be honest.

Lockdown was an exceptional time but we did see a
decline in productivity. We are also very flexible when parents need to have children at home when sick etc. but I expect all staff to have childcare in place during their working hours.

I spoke with her today and she got very emotional. She said I’m a single mother, what do you expect me to do? I explained that like every employer I expect her to have childcare arrangements during working hours.

My own children are nursery as are the children of other staff members…

@ByMyName and let me guess, as it's a government scheme she only gets paid minimum wage and you expect her to be able to afford the childcare...