Jimmy Carr’s Racist Joke

[Knutface]

www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/feb/04/jimmy-carr-condemned-for-joke-about-gypsies-in-netflix-special

Not something that I find funny but it has highlighted something. Racism against Roma/Sinti people is widely acceptable and not treated in the same away as racism against other minorities. Years ago I worked for a local authority in an area with a fair few traveller sites and noticed that staff that would never dream of using slurs against black or Asian people openly did so against travellers. AIBU to think that this is the ‘joke’? Anti Roma sentiment is unfortunately widespread.

I don't particularly find Jimmy Carr Funny but my take on it was more that he was highlighting how certain groups seem to be easily targeted. I don't necessarily think it should be taken at face value.

Does that apply to his rape 'jokes' as well? So is he drawing attention to how easily targeted so many women are by rape and male violence?

@loislovesstewie

FFS! why is it OK to joke about the attempted genocide of a people? Someone please explain. It doesn't matter is some people from a minority are criminals or just unpleasant, when did that justify murdering the whole group?

It doesn't. Carr made a joke. He didn't say genocide was good. He didn't commit genocide. He made a joke. A distasteful one, yep. But it was a joke.

Why is it supposed to be funny? Would it be funny if he was making the joke about a loved who had died tragically or been murdered? Because I think that would be in very poor taste too. There is always a line comedians should not cross.

Does that apply to his rape 'jokes' as well? So is he drawing attention to how easily targeted so many women are by rape and male violence?

Yes and no. He's certainly not being virtuous but he's spearing the dark underbelly society doesn't like to talk about.

I can see people not finding it funny and thinking it's distasteful but anyone thinking he's genuinely pro rape is a fucking idiot.

The suggestions on MN that we should censor 'problematic' humour are a much greater threat to minorities than Jimmy Carr.

Jimmy Carr is a sad excuse for a comic, entertaining for those with a grudge and without a sense of irony. He is dreadful and I'm amazed he can earn a living from his 'I was only joking' excuses for humour. One of the 'it is banter you sad fish faced lesbian' crowd. Hey, Jimmy, just so you know in future, a joke is supposed to be funny.

@TidyDancer

I don't particularly find Jimmy Carr funny but my take on it was more that he was highlighting how certain groups seem to be easily targeted. I don't necessarily think it should be taken at face value.

Yeah, that's what I'd have said. It actually means the opposite of what he seems to be saying.

I'm not a Carr fan FWIW.

@donquixotedelamancha

I don't particularly find Jimmy Carr funny but my take on it was more that he was highlighting how certain groups seem to be easily targeted. I don't necessarily think it should be taken at face value.

This. Jimmy Carr goes out of his way during his act to highlight what he's doing, anyone he think he's making the same jokes as Bernard Manning either hasn't actually watched what they are complaining about or is just thick.

Would a joke about the KKK killing black people be funny or acceptable?

Sarah Silverman makes similarly 'racist' jokes about black people (assuming you don't understand the joke).

It's fine to dislike any comedian but once we start saying a joke is the same thing as a belief it satirises we are fucked.

Yeah.

I think you could make a good argument that Carr is often not quite pointed enough so that his jokes can fall a little flat, and because of the type of joke it comes off a lot worse than a MIL joke that falls flat.

That's because he's only so so as a comedian. Which isn't actually a crime. If he's too crappy at it he will have to find another job.

Satire and complicated approaches to topics are important, and lots of really good comedians (Chris Rock, Chappelle, Billy Crystal, Cleese, Seinfeld,) have complained that the literalistic attitude to comedy means that anything that might be edgy is just avoided. That's a bad thing.

[quote trunktoes]@JuicySatsuma85 Judaism is a religion. Made up of people of many different ethnic backgrounds many of which are white. White people are many different ethnicities themselves they just have white skin as do many many Jews particularly those that were caught up in the holocaust. Most Jews in Europe are indistinguishable from any other white person on the street. Hitler was obsessed with Aryans - blue eyed blondes. Not many white people i know look like that. Roma is also considered white. But you just choose the facts to suit yourself[/quote]
Nope. Jews are considered an ethnoreligious group. There is a difference between someone who follows Judaism & someone who is ethnically Jewish.

There is a difference between ethnically Caucasian European people and people of other ethnicities (Jewish, Roma, Hispanic) who have white passing/light skin.

Also, I’m literally Roma. Don’t tell me what race I am. My family have been white passing for decades but ultimately descend from India.

Racist do not treat “white” Roma and Jews how they would treat a white French person or white German person because we are not see as “actually white” because, well, we aren’t.

Also if you are trying to convince me Jews and Roma are white people so that you can have a “gotcha” moment where you say “SEE white people CAN be victims of racism”…nope.

Jews and Roma were not persecuted in the Holocaust because they were white. Clearly. That doesn’t make any sense.

*There is a difference between ethnically Caucasian European people and people of other ethnicities (Jewish, Roma, Hispanic) who have white passing/light skin.

Also, I’m literally Roma. Don’t tell me what race I am. My family have been white passing for decades but ultimately descend from India.*

So don't tell Jewish people what race they are you are doing exactly same as you accuse others of.

You are the main one telling people what race they are but then crying about it.

@donquixotedelamancha

Does that apply to his rape 'jokes' as well? So is he drawing attention to how easily targeted so many women are by rape and male violence?

Yes and no. He's certainly not being virtuous but he's spearing the dark underbelly society doesn't like to talk about.

I can see people not finding it funny and thinking it's distasteful but anyone thinking he's genuinely pro rape is a fucking idiot.

The suggestions on MN that we should censor 'problematic' humour are a much greater threat to minorities than Jimmy Carr.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that he's 'pro rape' but there are certain subject that just aren't funny and not appropriate to be told in the form of 'jokes', the way he does.

Satire is a wonderful method by which to spear the dark underbelly society doesn't like to talk about but his racist and rape 'jokes' are not satire, they're just a crude, unsophisticated way he likes to use to see how far he can push the boundaries.

He's reminds me very much of the small crowds of pre-teenage schoolboys I often see in the street on their way home from school.

They're swearing and swaggering and hoping to shock every one around them with their crude language. Sadly they have no idea just how silly and try hard they sound, very much like Jimmy Carr.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that he's 'pro rape'

I wasn't meaning you particularly but there are lots of comments on here completely confusing the subject of jokes with the target of jokes.

there are certain subject that just aren't funny and not appropriate

Deciding what lots of people find funny isn't funny because it's not your sense of humour is the height of hubris.

I agree that his humour is puerile, childish and primarily about crossing boundaries. That's a valid reason to not like him but anything more is dangerous.

The right to perform offensive humour applies just as much to Jimmy Carr as to cleverer and more virtuous performers.

I'm one of those people he's said that about the fucking bastard!

My Grandad joined up for both wars,he was only 11 in the 1st World war,but he lied about his age and the forces were desperate,he started of as a drummer boy.

World war 2 he was there again,at one stage he was reported as missing presumed dead, he'd survived thankfully but was missing for 6 months and he had a wife (my Nan)and several children at home(my Dad,Aunties and Uncles)and he went to war to protect others,he looked like a Gypsy,most of us in our family do and I'm so proud of my heritage and my Grandad.

He went behind enemy lines and more than once and if Hitler's men got hold of him he would have been killed because he's a Gypsy, there's my Grandad at just 11 risking everything and then you get a scrote like Jimmy Carr laughing about our losses,our people being killed!

Thankyou OP for starting this thread, I've faced racism more than once on here and reported it,but apparently racism towards me,my DC,my family doesn't matter,but it does bloody matter!

I wonder if that dick head Carr knows that Nazi soldiers would pose with Gypsy babies for photographs just before they put them in the gas chambers?!

I also wonder if he knows that it's widely believed amongst scholars that they didn't record anywhere near every life of a Gypsy that was taken and the reason stated was because we were seen as sub normal(the nazi party's words not mine)and not human!

donquixotedelamancha Yes, you're right, censorship per se is a path we should steer well clear of but, like it or not, there are certain things that are not longer deemed acceptable to 'joke' about.

Such television programmes as 'Love thy neighbour' or 'Please Sir' that were made in the 70s would most definitely not be made today because their racist content would be considered completely unacceptable.

I often watch old films and tv programmes on the 'Talking Pictures' channel and they issue warnings all the time about the fact that some of the content might offend, and whenever they do it's generally pretty mild stuff and very, very rarely overtly racist.

Society does censor itself and while society has moved on from accepting tv programmes based on racist 'jokes' and racial and sexual stereotyping it seems that society doesn't expect the same standards to apply to people like Jimmy Carr.

Yeah, YANBU at all unfortunately.

MorningStarling humour is subjective, there is no right or wrong

The Nazis used 'humour' as a major part of their propaganda against Jewish people. Was this wrong?

I don't think that humour which offends people is necessarily wrong, however Jimmy Carr did cross a line here.

Society does censor itself and while society has moved on from accepting tv programmes based on racist 'jokes' and racial and sexual stereotyping it seems that society doesn't expect the same standards to apply to people like Jimmy Carr.

I don't disagree (apart from with the fools who think government censorship or twitter mob rule would be best).

I often watch old films and tv programmes on the 'Talking Pictures' channel and they issue warnings all the time about the fact that some of the content might offend, and whenever they do it's generally pretty mild stuff and very, very rarely overtly racist.

It's in a nextflix special called 'his dark material', it's 18 rated, has a written warning for 'language sexual content and discrimination' and he opens with a very clear verabal warning about what sort of content he will cover. I think that's reasonable.

I also think there is an important difference between the worst of Jimmy Carr's 'racism' and the mildest of the 70s stuff you refer to. For me the target of the joke being vulnerable is the line I'd like to see private business draw. I want people to be able joke about any subject, no matter how bad, because the cost to stop that is too high.

[quote trunktoes]@JuicySatsuma85 eh? What colour are Jews then? What the fuck?[/quote]
Indeed, what colour are Jews? Ethiopian Jews for example? Or Indian Jews?

Ask a white supremacist if Jews are white. See what they say.

When people go to see Jimmy Carr they know the type of joke that he will tell. If people don't like it they don't have to go and see him. People vote with their pockets. His shows are always sold out which proves there's an awful lot of people who find him funny.

I'm very much in the "joke about anything" camp and have never really felt "that's too far" regarding a joke, however I think public shows and the like shouldn't feature racist or ableist jokes etc. Keep them private among other people who also joke about anything.

donquixotedelamancha That's true, the 'dark material' programme did come with very clear warnings so people should have known what to expect.

Unfortunately, while he might very well be attempting to broach such subjects, as some posters on here claim, in a satirical way, I fear there will be a good many people in his audience who are cheering him on in a sense of shared racism.

Racism hasn't gone away. It's very much alive and I'm not sure how helpful he's being with this type of material if he's aiming to see it's demise.

Another comedians take on the joke.

Leo Kearse

Humour should not be censored. It’s called freedom of speech. If you don’t like it, you can always watch something else.