that school should offer lunch time detentions?

[ljs22]

Regular poster, NC for this post,

Firstly, I completely agree with the concept of detentions. If my dd (15) has done something wrong, she needs to be punished. That's fine. Thankfully she doesn't get them often - just the occasional one, usually for not doing homework on time.

But (here's the AIBU). After school detentions mean that she misses the school coach, which I pay £60 a month for to bring her home. I work 4 days a week and my partner works long and unpredictable shifts, so we are invariably not available to collect her when she has an after school detention. We have no family locally who can help out.

We also live a 40 min drive away from the school and public transport is a pain as we are in the back end of nowhere and she'd need to get 2 (sometimes 3) buses, one of which runs only every hour, so if she misses that she has a really long wait. Hence why I pay for the coach in the first place as it brings her right to the street we live on.

I've been informed today by email that she's been given an hour detention tomorrow for not doing homework. I've contacted the school to request a lunch time one instead in the circumstances.

But .. AIBU to request this? I'm not sure if I am or not, but I honestly don't know what to do. I can't take time off work to collect her from school, neither can my partner, and I don't want her stranded for ages waiting for buses either when I pay a company to bring her home for precisely that reason.

@OddSocksSparklyDocsandDungaree

'I'm now questioning whether a detention is even proportionate.'

@ljs22 Of course it is!

It doesn't matter that she completed the majority of questions, she should have completed them all! If she didn't understand something, she should have guessed

You don’t punish kids for not knowing something. What kind of randomness is that?!

No school I’ve ever worked in has encouraged kids to guess. They make an attempt, which the op says her DD has, and then if they can’t do it they leave it so they teacher is aware there is a knowledge gap.

Gosh I'm totally with you OP. A detention is entirely inappropriate for having struggled with the homework. Why does that deserve any punishment at all? It needs some extra explanation and/or a reminder to hand it in anyway even if incomplete. It seems so disrespectful to the child.

[quote RegardingMary]@ilovesooty

I'm not saying there is money.

Just that if seems pretty ridiculous for a school to have such a strict behaviour policy but not the staff to ensure it can be implemented in a way that doesn't put children at risk of being run over or sexually assaulted.

If things are so dire they should probably consider toning it down a notch. An afterschool detention for not answering 1 question is ridiculous.[/quote]
Teachers have zero control over a school's behaviour policy or staffing decisions. I don't work in a school in which forgetting a pen is a punishable offence but I can tell you that the time wasted dealing with these 'minor infringements' is considerable. Your answer to this problem is that schools need to back off, which would be all well and good but the pressure on schools to get results with no excuses shows no sign of abating, so how do those two go together?

And as for 'minor infringements' , I wouldn't be completely certain that the homework was attempted before the detention issued - the dd is a repeat offender with homework. And not having a pen may seem minor but saying adults wouldn't be punished for it isn't quite right. Would you expect to be pulled up at work if you kept turning up without a vital piece of equipment? We have to start teaching life lessons somewhere.

A friend of mine started to charge her son petrol and time every time he had a detention. If he didn't have the funds he did extra chores to pay for it. This worked.

Gah. That came across a bit smug. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not a given across all schools, and milder sanctions applied consistently can also be very effective.

Given detention for incomplete homework without working out why first is lazy and ultimately harmful.

Schools should absolutely be challenged on their behaviour policies.

@ljs22

I understand those saying "she has to do her homework then". Of course - I completely agree! But what more can I do than reinforce this message to her consistently, which I do? I can't sit over her while she does it, and I can't do it for her. If she tells me she's done all her work, I take her word for it. Generally speaking, she does. It's just certain subjects she doesn't like so she picks and chooses 🙄

Does she get an allowance or get money for Christmas or birthdays? In which case she pays for a taxi home out of that money....she won't be getting a detention again in a hurry will she?

@deeplyrooted

I’d question why the mark is a ‘black mark’ always a negative connotation with the word black.

@JustLyra You guess, show your working out and the teacher can then help you to work out where you went wrong. Hardly 'randomness'

@JustLyra

Yes I do believe her. She's quite open about things and jn the past has just outright said to me "I didn't do it because I couldn't be bothered, I hate geography/maths" (etc). This time she's actually made an attempt (which I've seen). She said the teacher looked through it and said "what happened to the last question?" DD replied I didn't finish it as I didn't understand. Teacher apparently said "well you need to be consistent, that's an after school detention I'm afraid". That's DD's version. I'm backing her on this one. I don't think that's fair.

@madlam

I'm not saying thd teachers do have that input. But the school sets it's own behaviour policy nobody else.
Surely there are other ways of dealing with not having equipment, we used to have to borrow a pen from the office and to ensure it was returned we had to hand in our bus pass.

I have every sympathy for teachers, I doubt they want to spend their free time marking homework or class time handing out detentions. They're just pawns in a much larger system.

If she did it and handed it in on time then she shouldn't have detention at all I agree.
Leaving one question out isn't unreasonable.
If detention does stand then perhaps compromise is to do chore for your partner as he's giving up 90 mins or whatever of his time to chauffer her so she cooks when it's his turn etc to give him time back or pays his petrol or both.

This is one of those weird mumsnet things where schools can do no wrong and no detention is ever unreasonable. Of course that is ridiculous reasoning for a detention.

As a child I had a tricky route home so on the rare occasion I had detention that would be usually after school I would do 3 x lunchtimes.

Why should someone have to give up their lunchtime to supervise your child just so she can get the school bus home. You are being completely unreasonable. As other people have said an easy solution is for your DD to hand in homework on time.

[quote OddSocksSparklyDocsandDungaree]@JustLyra You guess, show your working out and the teacher can then help you to work out where you went wrong. Hardly 'randomness' [/quote]
Guessing and working out are two totally different things. You said guessing - guessing doesn’t help anyone.

The op clearly said her dD attempted the question and then left it when she didn’t get anywhere. That’s making an attempt…

@Eightiesfan

Why should someone have to give up their lunchtime to supervise your child just so she can get the school bus home. You are being completely unreasonable. As other people have said an easy solution is for your DD to hand in homework on time.

Please read my updates before commenting. She did hand it in on time. She missed out just one question.

@ljs22

I've had a response from the school - they are moving it to another evening next week when my partner will be free to collect her as it fits with his shifts. No doubt he'll be thrilled when I tell him! She's a pain in the arse, I agree with that much. Just not sure how you force a 15 year old to do work she can't be bothered with.

You sit with her while she does it? Make it clear it's not bloody optional when it's causing her parents such a hassle. Clearly her word on this cannot be trusted. No tv until its done, no phone until it's done. If she lies about how much she has and gets another detention punish her. Don't accept this

When did you get the email? If she did the homework last night then perhaps it wasn't in time after all.

To me, this is essentially the school choosing to punish my dd for gaps in her knowledge. That's ridiculously unfair.

That's awful ! My school don't do any detentions unless they specifically have parents permission.

I've given permission for them to keep my ds in at lunchtime. They could keep him after school as we live close to it but they've never asked for that option.

Of course the school need to consider your daughter's safety & how she's getting home after dark !

I'd be phoning the school to arrange an alternative

[quote ljs22]@JustLyra

Yes I do believe her. She's quite open about things and jn the past has just outright said to me "I didn't do it because I couldn't be bothered, I hate geography/maths" (etc). This time she's actually made an attempt (which I've seen). She said the teacher looked through it and said "what happened to the last question?" DD replied I didn't finish it as I didn't understand. Teacher apparently said "well you need to be consistent, that's an after school detention I'm afraid". That's DD's version. I'm backing her on this one. I don't think that's fair. [/quote]
I’d be asking the teacher what is inconsistent about attempting every question - that’s very odd.

I’m with you on that, that’s an unfair detention and unless the teacher had a very different version that was more believable I’d be saying she wasn’t doing a detention.

It’s also daft because it’s likely just going to put a child off even bothering to attempt any of the homework if they know getting stuck on one question results in detention.

@deeplyrooted

It sounds brilliant and something all schools should aspire to.⁴
.
Parenting seems to becoming much more child centrerd and respectful of children as human beings. Schools on the otherhand generally seem to be going the opposite way.

I quietly wander if a more child centered level of parenting is producing children who are just more inclined to know and state their own opinion and expect to be treated as an individual which makes schooling en masse harder.

@ljs22

To me, this is essentially the school choosing to punish my dd for gaps in her knowledge. That's ridiculously unfair.

And there was no chance she could have asked anyone at home or looked something up? There was nothing she could have done to make any reasonable attempt?

I'm not necessarily agreeing with you, but I do think that sometimes it's easy for teenagers to be a bit feeble about this stuff when we really need to help them to start seeing how they can work around a situation rather than shrugging and assuming it should all be fine because how were they supposed to know?

You're concerned about your daughter's safety but , to use your words , you live in the' act end of nowhere.'
Did you not think about this before moving there?

Our school has half an hour for lunch - no time for detentions - therefore they have to be completed after school. This is your daughter’s problem, I’m afraid. It seems harsh to give detention for missing one question, however, perhaps the teacher wants to use the time to explain it? That’s what I’d do.

If I had a pound for every student who said 'I didn't do it because I didn't understand it' 'I did do it, but I forgot to hand it in/the printer wasn't working' etc etc, when actually it's pretty obvious they didn't do it because they couldn't be arsed, I'd be a rich woman. You believe your dd. But you admit she has form for not bothering to do homework. The teachers know this too. I seriously doubt this detention was given 'because of gaps in her knowledge'. It will have been given because she didn't do her homework.