To ask if you are a 'housewife' with no children?

[crochetmonkey74]

I know the term housewife is outdated so first off apologies.
I've always wondered about this , I had a great aunt and uncle who never had children but she never worked. I've always been interested in how this would be (been a bit of a fantasy of mine)
Do any of you have this life ? What is it like?

@ZoeTheThornyDevil

A household containing two adults doesn't really take all that much "running". You're either going to be sitting on your arse most of the time, or generating unneeded busywork. But it's in no way a FT "job".

Depends how big the house is!

OP your great Aunt is from a different generation. Many men didn't want their wives to work. It wasn't that long ago that a married woman couldn't work!

My SIL gave up work when she moved in with my brother - they had no prenuptial. It was a big house in a lovely village in middle England. Her behaviour shocked me. They eventually got married and had kids.

I dreamed about being a lady who lunches, but instead I am the breadwinner. I might retire one day

@poshme
I'm glad I didn't offend. It just goes to show we should all do what suits us best. I just felt consumed by getting stuff done and completely lost my identity. My wage was only really adding to savings tbh, so I didn't really feel like I was contributing much.

LOL @ big important job

Haha just using MN parlance!

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@neondino An awful lot of women without children work and do all those things you do as well. That is why people question how busy you really are.[/quote]
But successful couples can do less. Both parties have the luxury of not having to cram in two full time jobs with all the domestic and social demands of life.

Equally if a couple who are successful choose to both work full time, they will usually employ people to do many of the other tasks. To make their lives more pleasant. Either way, their lives are enriched by their success.

The people who are bitter on this thread are the unsuccessful people. They maybe hope that accusing the successful of being lazy will make them feel better about themselves. Which of course it won’t.

Meanwhile the successful people are simply bemused by the bitterness.

Meanwhile the successful people are simply bemused by the bitterness.

Oh come on. They're not bemused in the slightest. Actually, the posts accusing others of being bitter and jealous are by far the angriest ones on here, which is itself a bit weird. There's even been a deletion for a particularly insulting one.

How is ‘successful’ being defined? Because if it’s marrying a wealthy man and then never doing anything else again, I’d say that’s the definition of being unsuccessful at adult life!

What would MN think of a successful couple without children who both choose to work part time, because they can afford to? Lazy?

@DrSbaitso

Meanwhile the successful people are simply bemused by the bitterness.

Oh come on. They're not bemused in the slightest. Actually, the posts accusing others of being bitter and jealous are by far the angriest ones on here, which is itself a bit weird. There's even been a deletion for a particularly insulting one.

Must have been deleted before I saw it - it’s the ‘have nots’ who have sounded angry based on the posts I’ve seen.

The childless ‘haves’ might be upset and bitter at not having or not being able to have children.

And the rare beasts are the happily childless who are financially secure enough to live life as they please.

@MadameHeisenberg

How is ‘successful’ being defined? Because if it’s marrying a wealthy man and then never doing anything else again, I’d say that’s the definition of being unsuccessful at adult life!

But that wouldn’t be enough information to assess success or not. You would need more data.

An awful lot of women without children work and do all those things you do as well. That is why people question how busy you really are.

But why do people have to justify their existence by being permanently busy? A lot of the women who don't work outside the home on here have talked about having more time for household stuff and also more time for social life, voluntary work, hobbies etc. I fail to see what's wrong with that. There's a proportion of people on here who see people's value solely in terms of output- if you're not currently either stacking shelves or scrubbing the floor, you're a scrounger- and I find it utterly depressing.

The fact is, marriages are long. It's very common for there to be times when each partner contributes more and times when they contribute less, and those contributions are not only economic but also take the form of domestic work, emotional support, care for one another etc etc. To see a relationship purely in terms of economics and then purely in terms of economic input right now is incredibly reductive. And that's before we get onto the internalised misogyny of those MNers who can only see other women as servants or parasites.

And the rare beasts are the happily childless who are financially secure enough to live life as they please.

That’s me. Not childless by choice to begin with, had fertility issues. The silver lining in that cloud was that after working 40 odd years I was able to take voluntary earlyish retirement when it was offered just before my 58th birthday.

I have a relative who married a wealthy man - she married him in her late 20’s when he was in his late 40’s with his own business. He had grown-up children and didn’t want more so she traded that ambition for the security. She never worked after marriage. When his company floundered financially she borrowed money from her not very wealthy parents but she never worked. When he was forced back into a trade in his late 60’s she never worked. My side of the family all work and all bar one work in the public sector - police, nurses, teachers and doctors. If we are being held up as example of “unsuccessful” while my relative is an example of “successful” then so be it - I can live with that. ( I don’t know how they can however)

There's a proportion of people on here who see people's value solely in terms of output- if you're not currently either stacking shelves or scrubbing the floor, you're a scrounger

But we live in collective societies and our daily lives are dependent on this system; we need people to pay taxes, operate power plants, produce our food, police the streets, diagnose and treat us when sick and a million other things.

If your entire existence comprises only doing things that primarily please and benefit yourself, with no input to wider society and only ‘taking’, then to be honest you’re a bit of a parasite.

If your entire existence comprises only doing things that primarily please and benefit yourself, with no input to wider society and only ‘taking’, then to be honest you’re a bit of a parasite.

You could equally say that of, say, hedge fund managers whose work consists of making themselves and other already rich people even richer.

Must have been deleted before I saw it - it’s the ‘have nots’ who have sounded angry based on the posts I’ve seen.

Well I don't have any skin in this game, but yesterday the "You're just so bitter and jealous" posts were getting really frenzied. I couldn't see why anyone who is so certain that anyone else with a differing viewpoint must just be insanely envious would be getting quite this angry about it. There have been insults and put downs on both sides, don't get me wrong, but that one was at fever pitch yesterday and yes, deletion occurred.

At any rate, even if the other side really posting for no reason than insane jealousy, it's still extremely clear that the "ur well jel" lot are not coming at it from a position of absolutely innocent bemusement. That's just obtuse.

It’s certainly nothing to be proud of, on the contrary, I find it astonishing that it’s anything to aspire to.

Do these same people raise their kids to aim for this too; do they glow with pride when telling others ‘oh my kids don’t have qualifications/jobs/careers, they just married wealthy people and are kept by them’. I somehow doubt it, which betrays what they and most others really think about such lifestyles.

I think we are comparing an old fashioned way of life here. Feminism came about because women were treated unequally .Unable to have a loan or credit , mortgage and so on . That was why we wanted equality . Its everyones choice obv but its not my dream to have a "spotless " house kept so ,from hours of housework while hubby works in a rewarding career of his own! No financial freedom. Obv different if DH is a high earner or suchlike .Another thing to remember is that unlike SAHMS you are not eligible for any NI credits so no state pension of yourown, Not for me!

@Growbean You asked why people are questioning how you can be busy. I answered your question. Your reply is why people have to be busy.
You don't have to be busy. But if someone answers the question you asked then it is strange to then effectively challenge the question you asked.

You could equally say that of, say, hedge fund managers

Well you could yes and I personally don’t think much of them, but they are paying (at least some) taxes and possibly providing employment for others, so in the end it’s not really a fair comparison.

It stands to reason that in a culture where working hard is seen as a positive attribute, and in a society that relies on its members making a contribution, servicing only one's own needs and those of an individual man is not going to afford the same level of respect that a wider contribution would. I'm not talking about those people who make hidden contributions, or are retired from a life of working, but those who have never wished to engage in work of any type. Many people have spoken about how this choice affords them a lovely life, but seem reluctant to accept there is a price to pay for that in the lack of esteem, value and respect from others for their contribution. Which is not altogether unreasonable because objectively, if you do nothing but please yourself,
you are not really making one. Shouting at people about how much more fortunate you are might make some people a little envious, but it won't change the fact that many people genuinely do have less respect for these choices, and I think to some extent this is being misinterpreted as jealousy.

One thing that has struck me in all this...I do agree with a PP that if you are in the fortunate position of having plenty of both free time and money, and good health, then it would indeed behove you to use some of that time (and indeed money) to help improve your local community where most people probably aren't quite as lucky as you. It certainly seems a better use of your time than sniping at people online about how envious they are of what you yourself think of as an enviable life.

Have name changed for this and am finding it v interesting coming from a perspective of having had early retirement forced upon me by illness and disability.

Obviously I am always excluded from many of pps posts ("except those with disabilities etc) which is another topic altogether as those of us with disabilities are often ignored particularly by those in government who only appeal to hard working people.

FWIW I struggled to work pt when DC were young and finally admitted defeat and was awarded a disability pension when youngest DC started school when I was early 40s.

12 years on and it has been challenging and illuminating and will continue to be so.

Reading this thread has had me agreeing with so many different perspectives. I must admit that losing my "work" identity (I was a specialist HCP) has been hard and has been a bit like a bereavement in some respects. It was an achievement for me, particularly as my disability made university extremely challenging and often led to me nearly jacking it in.

I think it's so easy to judge others, particularly when we are struggling with our own lives and can fantasise about being free from the constraints of work. I did enjoy my job (well about 80% of it) and it did bring me purpose, self-esteem, friendships and intellectual stimulation. Being stuck at home has been hugely challenging and I will admit that even now, 10 years on, I still have days when I am bored senseless (hence too many hours on MN!). I appreciate that having physical limitations means that many of the activities described in this thread are not accessible to me and even intellectually, although I try to keep stimulated, thereare times when apathy takes over.

It's enabled me to spend a lot of time pondering about life and as a pp mentioned, how we measure "success". As a society we obviously do need people to work hard, but there must also be a more holistic view as to how we value ourselves otherwise for people like me, there would be little point in getting out of bed in the morning.

I think I am probably going off on a philosophical tangent now.... but I think we should all just live and let live really. Probably easier said than done as I can be as judgemental as the next person (as DD pointed out to me last night when watching the Apprentice ).

I would rather work at this point in my life, there are things I want to achieve at work and I get a lot of satisfaction from it. I can see how you could create a meaningful life volunteering, hobbies, keeping fit but housework is boring to me and doesn't take that long . I would rather work and pay a cleaner as I hate doing it myself. Others enjoy cleaning though, each to their own.
I was also brought up to think that having a strong working ethic and being aspirational was a good thing and something to be proud of. So the ladies that lunch type mentality , like this post is quite alien to me:
"JosephineDeBeauharnais

I know several women in this situation. They are childless by choice, married to high earning men and wouldn’t dream of doing any sort of work. They don’t volunteer, do charity work, fundraising, nothing. They also have cleaners and gardeners. What they do is shop, coffee, lunch, plan holidays, walk the dog. They’ve always got a home improvement project on the go, or are moving house. They seem to fill their time very nicely and have lovely, enviable lives."
I don't know anyone who lives like this personally, but this seems to me the ultimate pointless existence, if you do this your entire life rather than after years of working, and not at all enviable. Surely people's lives need to have some purpose and meaning? How is total self indulgence sustainable long term? Many people benefit from the structure , sense of teamwork, camaradery and shared purpose that work provides, even if it's not the most interesting work. And all jobs matter down to the lowest paid.
There must be some statistics on unemployment and its effect on mental and physical health, its effect on people's confidence, which I would look for if I had more time . And to echo previous posters I have seen my own grandparents struggle with retirement eg. Staying in on bin collection day because they felt they had to supervise tis for some reason, putting limitations on themselves and deciding they couldn't cope with anything, and just generally wasting theiŕ retirement years. Work does have its positives. Interesting thread though.

@MadameHeisenberg But as I say, most of us have periods in our lives when we do more and when we do less, and most people who don't work outside the home contribute in other ways. I'm a solicitor but if I were suddenly to become unable to work I wouldn't be a parasite (vile and scary word to use about another human being by the way), likewise if my husband and I agreed between us that, for our joint well-being, one of us would continue to do paid work and one of us would do all the rest. It's such a narrow and reductive view of human life to think you're only contributing if you're earning.