COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

[quote Lavender24]@scrowy

Of course the cows want to be bloody milked. Have you ever had tits bursting with milk?[/quote]
As it happens I have.

Like dairy cows I also ate a lot of cake whilst having it milked out of me. Was lovely, but not good for the old waistline.

www.hollismeadorganicdairy.co.uk/

We have a jersey and 3 Ayrshires. Yes these breeds are making a comeback. There's a herd of Jerseys near us and it's lovely to see them out grazing in the summer.

@Christmissy - ah another new one to try - thank you.

I’ve used lidl oat milk in tea. Different taste, but quite nice

If you don't like vegan cheese Honestly Tasty and I Am Nut OK are good but expensive! As a now and again thing or special occasion though they're great. We normally do a big order and freeze some

I'm not going to get more involved in this because I'm so tired of debating with people who's only experience of farming is something they have watched on YouTube.

Go to an actual farm. See for yourself. Open Farm Sunday is on the 12th June this year.

We use oat milk, it’s fine in tea and coffee. We buy Aldi and Lidl own brand which is about 80p per carton, or tesco which is £1. We get through loads as 3 vegan teens.

There's quite a few batista ones out now if it's hot drinks particularly, case of trial and error really as everyone seems to have their favourites! I haven't had cows milk in years but to be honest was a change at first and the taste of an alternative took some getting used to, but don't miss it at all now.

@Scrowy

I'm a farmer and there are some aspects of the dairy industry that don't sit comfortably with me. Not the same ones you have highlighted mostly though.

Don't be under any illusion that dairy cows are being forcibly milked. Being milked is the highlight of their day and they literally queue up at the milking parlour to get in.

Anyone who works with cows on a regular basis knows its pretty much impossible to get them to do something they don't want to do.

Cows are beautiful creatures, some have lovely personalities (some don't) they do have soulful eyes, but don't try and extrapolate that to them having human feelings though.

Don't point the blame at farming, point the blame at supermarkets who have created a market environment where farmers have to use dairy animals (the same applies to milk sheep) as machines rather than farm animals.

People are always going to eat/ use milk. Even if they don't buy pints of actual milk, cheese, cream, butter, powdered milk etc and its by-products are everywhere. There will always be market for it.

Instead of making a superficial change to plant juices why not lobby the supermarkets and major food producers to pay more to farmers so that they be less intensive.

Although we all know that cost will only be passed on to the customer....

I think this is really sensible. We live in a big dairy farming area and can get milk straight from the farms. Soya production is terrible for the workers and the environment. Hardly a good substitute.

Don't be under any illusion that dairy cows are being forcibly milked. Being milked is the highlight of their day and they literally queue up at the milking parlour to get in.

That's sad though isn't it, the highlight of the day being milked for humans. I do agree though that absolutely farmers should be paid a fair wage, you can get bottles of milk cheaper than bottles of water now which is wild and evidently someone in the supply chain isn't being paid fairly.

Farms are not all some idyllic refuge for cows. I live surrounded by farms and whilst some farmers are better than others to a point. The cows closest to me get locked in a barn from October to April, minimal day light that comes in through a hole in the roof. No windows or escape from the barn, for months at a time because it’s too much trouble for the farmer to round them up, when the weather gets colder

It’s hardly a great way of passing the time. There is no enrichment In any of the farms near me and open days are always when the sun is shinning and the animals have freedom and baby animals about.

www.hollismeadorganicdairy.co.uk/ I know I just posted this, but if you are interested in how we can make life better for dairy cows, people, the environment, do have a look. Listed for the BBC Food and Farming awards.

There's one of their vending machines in my town, as they deliver only locally. No packaging, no supermarket. Cows only milked once a day, organic. This is the kind of dairy I can get on board with.

@Croissantly

Don't be under any illusion that dairy cows are being forcibly milked. Being milked is the highlight of their day and they literally queue up at the milking parlour to get in.

That's sad though isn't it, the highlight of the day being milked for humans. I do agree though that absolutely farmers should be paid a fair wage, you can get bottles of milk cheaper than bottles of water now which is wild and evidently someone in the supply chain isn't being paid fairly.

Out of interest what do you think the highlight of the day would be for a free roaming wild cow?

.... didn't get eaten by a predator again, perhaps?

This is the issue, humans assuming cows being milked 2 x a day somehow have a boring/ unfulfilled/ forced life.

The reality is they are mostly safe and warm in a shed, have feed and water on tap and get any ailments treated.

In comparison to a wild cow who, eats all day, if they can find food, drinks, i they can find water then goes to sleep and hope nothing tries to eat them at some point?

@Scrowy

I'm not going to get more involved in this because I'm so tired of debating with people who's only experience of farming is something they have watched on YouTube.

Go to an actual farm. See for yourself. Open Farm Sunday is on the 12th June this year.

When's open abbatoir Saturday and factory farm Friday, please? Ya know, to fully understand the whole process

Soya production is terrible for the workers and the environment. Hardly a good substitute.
Soy is surely just one protein option among hundreds for vegans. I also believe that something like 70-80% of the world’s soy is produced for animal feed... it seems a fairly lame argument.

@shedevill
Why not ask the abbatoir / factory farm?

Don't generalise. There are some good farms and farmers around, who incidentally are trying their best against all odds.

Asda own brand unsweetened soya milk is the best!

Veggie for over 35 years. Barely eat dairy. Concept makes me feel odd

Please make sure you get enough calcium if you give up dairy - osteoporosis is not fun and we typically have got our calcium from dairy.

No windows or escape from the barn, for months at a time because it’s too much trouble for the farmer to round them up, when the weather gets colder Oh dear. This is because there isn't enough grass in those months. The cows spend the colder months in a nice dry shed with food, water and comfortable bedding on tap. Don't make stuff up

I use sweetened Aldi soya or sweetened own brand Morrisons soya, completely happy with it in coffee, on cereals etc. Never had stronger nails (i.e. calcium) either

@StylishMummy I've not watched the documentary but I can imagine what happens. Never been a farmer myself but my best friend from secondary school, her family were dairy farmers. I remember when I was hanging out at hers her father shooting the bull calves and the cows calling for their young who had been removed. Only 20 years ago so can't think things will have changed too much since then.

In what way do you think this film skews reality, out of interest?

or months at a time because it’s too much trouble for the farmer to round them up, when the weather gets colder

You having a laugh! Farmers love summer, its easy peasy. Cows outside, eat grass, drink water, check them once a day. Lovely.

Cows inside for winter - absolute ball ache. Feed in the morning with silage. Smelly, job, hard work. Then muck cows out. If its dropped below zero unfreeze all the pipes and break the ice on the water trough. Spread the muck back onto the fields once a week. But only in certain weather conditions. Check during the day, not fine, one stuck in cubicles, the bulls tried to jump the gate to get to a cow that is bulling. Check again throughout the day, feed again at night. Every day, 7 days a week. FOR MONTHS

Where do people dream up this absolute crap from?

@Benvolio

As someone who is currently vegetarian, not vegan, I’d love to get on board with this sort of thing. But everything I’ve read, and basic logic, tells me that the world’s (ever increasing) demand for meat/dairy products + the very essence (low consumer price/high overall profit) of the capitalist system - it simply cannot fulfill even a fraction of humans demand for meat + dairy in a humane way. Particularly for us in the US and Europe - we’d all have to reduce our consumption by about 5x. The numbers just don’t add up.

I’ve been drinking non-dairy milk for about 13years, the quality was pretty grim but I got used to it. These days there is so much variety. I’ve simply lost enjoyment for meat also. I’m not sure how it happened. It just tastes ‘dead’. I can’t explain it. DH thinks it’s rather silly because of course it’s dead