COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

@ISmellBurnings

The vegan smoked applewood cheese tastes good but they all have the texture of rubber. No vegan cheese is nice.

And I still maintain none of them taste good in tea.

Good shout. Cote and Prime restaurants both serve this with their vegan burgers - very good grilled.

@ISmellBurnings the cheese on the mcplant burger (yes I know small steps here) is immense!

@EdithStourton do you have to be so pedantic. I do think that as energy prices increase, so will food costs including meat - especially good quality /nice cuts what have you. People will have choices to make. I used to pick the organic free range whatever- tasted better. But I wouldn’t pay over the odds, I’d rather have a meatless meal. I love spuds and salads, pasta, rice… micro veg.
So come on @edith what do you eat and enjoy that isn’t animal based.

@Suzi888 I'm being accurate. I don't like facts being twisted to support a point of view (it's called propaganda and it pisses me off, because it makes genuine debate very difficult). If objecting to generalisations and inaccuracies gets me accused of hair-splitting and pedantry, that's a hit I'm prepared to take.

Rising energy prices are going to feed through massively into arable agriculture - fertiliser costs have already risen significantly, and supplies are currently limited (I'm not a farmer, I just keep an eye on the farm news as I live fairly rurally and take an interest). The bullocks that graze in the valley near me do their own fertilising.

I'm also not quite sure of the point of your question, but I have days when my diet is basically veggie or pescatarian. I like a G&T...

[quote EdithStourton]@Suzi888 I'm being accurate. I don't like facts being twisted to support a point of view (it's called propaganda and it pisses me off, because it makes genuine debate very difficult). If objecting to generalisations and inaccuracies gets me accused of hair-splitting and pedantry, that's a hit I'm prepared to take.

Rising energy prices are going to feed through massively into arable agriculture - fertiliser costs have already risen significantly, and supplies are currently limited (I'm not a farmer, I just keep an eye on the farm news as I live fairly rurally and take an interest). The bullocks that graze in the valley near me do their own fertilising.

I'm also not quite sure of the point of your question, but I have days when my diet is basically veggie or pescatarian. I like a G&T...[/quote]
Well this is a substitute milk thread - so…it’s not really or wasn’t meant to be a debate and the whole point is- what do you eat or drink that isn’t animal based.

Anyone tried fishless fish? Have you @EdithStourton since the “there’s a worm in my fish dinner” thread I’ve lost my appetite! So another creature formerly in my diet is a goner.

I love Gardein fishless battered fish - just great. I also like smoked tofu sauteed with seaweed for a fishy taste and served with thai red curry - amazing. The Bosh cookbook is fabulous and has recipes for vegan fish dishes. M&S do good fishless fish as well. There are packets of jackfruit "tuna" that are pretty good when mixed with vegan mayo.

@myowndevices I’ve taken a screen shot! Sounds amazing! Thank you

You put a thread in AIBU.

I glanced at the thread because I have friends and colleagues who drink Oatly and similar, including one who is dairy intolerant, so I had a passing interest. I also have a friend who farms cattle, so I have an interest from that perspective as well.

Then I read the 'throats slit' stuff. I don't like propaganda so I responded - the thread is in AIBU, remember. And then I was in...

My diet is, fortunately, my choice (though I've already told you that I drink G&T, which isn't animal based), but rest assured that I won't be trying fishless fish - I'm actually trying to eat less ultra-processed food, not more.

I eat very unprocessed food most of the time. There is zero cholesterol in vegan food so it's easy to eat more healthily regardless of whether you are treating yourself to a beyond meat burger. on occasion I eat loads and I am still slimmer than I've ever been since being vegan.

@EdithStourton

You put a thread in AIBU.

I glanced at the thread because I have friends and colleagues who drink Oatly and similar, including one who is dairy intolerant, so I had a passing interest. I also have a friend who farms cattle, so I have an interest from that perspective as well.

Then I read the 'throats slit' stuff. I don't like propaganda so I responded - the thread is in AIBU, remember. And then I was in...

My diet is, fortunately, my choice (though I've already told you that I drink G&T, which isn't animal based), but rest assured that I won't be trying fishless fish - I'm actually trying to eat less ultra-processed food, not more.

Aww @EdithStourton shrugs back - you did more than glance come on that’s weak everyone posts on aibu for traffic. Throats slit- when did that happen you just had to go through the whole thread. It does happen @edith Muslims insist upon it, that’s a whole other thread. My diet is also my choice? No? My question is my choice? No? Why not just leave it eh

My diet is shrugs unfortunately my choice too Edith
Remember

Throats slit- when did that happen you just had to go through the whole thread. It does happen

Not with the meat I buy. It comes from local butcher's and the abattoir they use isn't a halal one.

Have you never glanced through a thread and then started reading? Maybe not.

I would say that it's fortunate that your diet is your choice, to be honest. And yes, your question is your choice, but you don't get to choose the responses, or the responses to the responses. I don't think I've had a go at you at any point - and I'm sorry if I have - but I really seem to have wound you up. It wasn't my intention, but as I say, I dislike propaganda.

@EdithStourton you haven’t wound me up. But you also haven’t added anything of use to me I suppose. Just come on to say that you like meat, (as have others) about as useful as a chocolate tea pot.

Noooo, I didn't say that.
But never mind.

[quote Suzi888]@BellatricksStrange with respect, this is a thread about substitute milk. Not meat- why you don’t you pop along and start your own thread about scoffing meat.

“It's not that 'my taste buds are more important than an animal's life', as they like to put it, but that there is no reason whatsoever to care about an animal's life. If an animal tastes good, that's all the reason I need. The fact that the animal might not want to die is completely irrelevant. I just don't care and have no reason to care. Cows don't care about us, they don't participate in any social contract rules, so why should I care about them?”

• I don’t care about most humans to be honest, but morals ya know. Damn it…

No one here cares about you stuffing your face with dead things- that’s up to you. But your being very goady posting here. Don’t you think? Someone has started a thread about wormy fish and is very upset about the vegans popping in to say why are you shocked your fish has worms… because “the thread isn’t about that”.[/quote]
All of my arguments can just as well be applied to animal products, including milk.

So upsetting seeing on the news the other night about those workers on the dairy farm abusing those poor cows. One actually hit a poor cow in the face with a shovel

@Suzi888 the latest Aldi fishless fingers are amazing, no other fish alternative compares IMHO!

@DdraigGoch don’t all cows /pigs have their throats slit? It’s just whether they attempt to stun them beforehand. I find it almost funny really when people get up in arms about halal meat. You think 30 seconds of stress before having their throats cut makes a huge difference to the miserable time they have at the abbatoir?

Going back to farmer generalisations. Farmers couldn’t do their jobs if they weren’t practical/ a little detached about these things. I saw a shepherd on this thread say they treat their animals like children which is just ridiculous- you don’t kill children!

Most farmers don’t have 10-15 cows they cherish or we couldn’t afford milk! They have hundreds and the increase in bovine that is largely due to overcrowding. Of course most farmers will get their cows veterinary treatment where necessary because they don’t want disease to spread and they aren’t sadistic but it’s not the same relationship most British people have with their cats /dogs.

Even working dogs on farms are treated differently. I watched the Yorkshire shepherdess so as sanitised as a farm can be and they had a young dog they were training for sheep and it seemed to spend most of its day chained to an outdoor kennel. I would call rspca if my neighbour did that but it didn’t tug on the farmers heartstrings like it would mine because they have that practical level of detachment .

*bovine tb I meant to say

Even working dogs on farms are treated differently

Our working dog only gets chained up occasionally because someone complained about it being loose in the farmyard during lock down 1 (there is a footpath runs through). If we are away from the farm and have no use for the dog that is now when it gets chained up.

It otherwise roams freely in the farm yard minding its own business except for the wag of a tail at passers by, or racing to us if it hears one of us whistle for it because there is some sheep work to do. It sleeps in corner of a warm barn if it wants to, but can often be found fast asleep outside on concrete in the snow if it feels like it.

Its a working dog, its absolutely filthy, exceptionally fit and healthy and has a wonderful life living about as naturally as it is possible for domesticated dogs to do. Its bred for working as a sheepdog, its highly intelligent, bored easily and needs to run for several miles a day.

If we let it in the house it wouldn't roam freely. It wouldn't get to hang around the sheep pens feeling important, or potter round the barns sniffing out rats. It wouldn't get to run joyfully, after the quadbike over several acres, splashing through rivers, dodging rocks and trees. It would get fat and unhealthy and bored. It would be a miserable life for it.

I'd rather see a farm dog outside than a fat, genetically mutilated lapdog locked up for hours on end in a semi detached, bored and lonely and unstimulated whilst its owners were at work.

@Scrowy I didn’t mean to imply that the puppy I saw had a hard life. I’m sure once it was grown and trained it wasn’t chained up as much and the chain was to stop it being a pest or running away till it was trained. It was just an obvious example of normal farm animals treatment that seems cruel to non farming folk.

I was using it to demonstrate its not practical to treat farm animals the way we do pets and implying farmers should or that they do is silly. They wouldn’t make profit and they wouldn’t be able to slaughter animals they were so fond of.

Demonising farmers or romanticising them isn’t helpful.

@FlamingRoses

Plenish oat milk. It’s the only one that just oats, water and sea salt without all the added grossness like sunflower oil and thickeners!

Oatly do an organic one that doesn't have any added oils or thickners, i've also got various ones fromLidel / Aldi that aren't major brands.