COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

@Mogul

I have a lot of vegan friends who often share videos and the way they twist things is amazing.

A recent one was a dairy cow on the back of a truck going for slaughter. It was horrid but not in the UK

The one that really made me laugh was a video on how cows are tied up in shackles in barns and how cruel that is. It was a cow that had done the splits and was on box rest ffs, whilst I don't think cruelty is ok a tiny bit of ignorant knowledge is just as bad.

Also for PP yes things have changed a LOT in the past 10/20 years in the dairy industry, blimey they have even changed in the past 2 years

Conversely, farmers on Twitter share things like using a piece of equipment to calve a cow who was having a difficult birth. Some people Tweeted their horror. Would they rather the cow and calf died?

I use oat, and I love it. I don't really eat cereal but it tastes great in tea and coffee.

Our morals and ethics are a social construct and social contract. Animals are not part of that contract, therefore we don't owe them anything. As far as I'm concerned, animals have zero rights.

If we want milk, and cows have it, we can go ahead and take it.

The only place I'd draw the line is wanton and gratuitous cruelty to animals. Only because I don't want to live in a cruel society, but not because we owe it to the animals.

There is really no need to twist videos of animal cruelty - it's ubiquitous. As is vegan bashing. Why? Because vegans are right - morally, environmentally and also regarding health.

Vegans aren’t right though. Vegans will be the end of all connection between humans and nature.
You can’t grow arable crops without killing nature. You have to keep insects, birds and animals off them. What happens to the wildlife then?
Or you grow food artificially inside Then again you don’t need land for farming so what happens to it? More housing, more artificial landscaping and managed places for people not animals.

Farmers don’t go into farming because they hate animals.

What is COW ?

Is it another media induced frenzy about milk based on misinformation no one bothered to fact check ..

I love milk
Cheese
yoghurt
Chocolate
Etc etc etc

All
You saying you buy alternative milk
Do you really give up everything
???
Cheese
????????
Cream
Ice cream

I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years, I can't watch it, I'm such a wimp when it comes to animals, but as people are saying how bad cows are treated ( I didn't know ) I never watch any farming programs, I will find a alternative

Find that soya milk is a great substitute. Oat milk too, even though it makes tea more thick in consistency. Almond milk am not too keen on as it adds taste to tea.

Also
VIT B12

www.thecalfatfootdairy.co.uk/

I will say one thing about being vegan.
I went through the menopause and didn’t have one hot flash. I didn’t suffer from any physical side effects.

I can say the same - but I'm not vegan, nor am I vegetarian.

I've seen it - it's a beautiful film and devastating. Anyone who thinks it's 'vegan propaganda' hasn't been on a dairy farm. I grew up on one, a lovely one, where everyone was lovely to the cows etc. but that's still the reality I'm afraid.

I don’t eat meat but drink milk and have avoided COW because I know it will mean I have to change. I can’t keep drinking milk. I live by dairy farms and cows, I actually feel for farmers but obviously cows more. I’m going to watch it and I’m giving up milk. No idea if I can manage cheese though 😞

I find oat best overall for drinks, alpro do a special one called my cuppa for tea which is quite nice.

I haven’t watched it, I don’t class myself as “vegan” as I have pets I buy food for etc, but I stopped eating any animal products a couple of years back, before that I was vegetarian- purely because I can’t eat meat knowing an animal has suffered. I used to get really annoyed at people sharing things like videos of male chicks being chopped up in the egg industry, but in hindsight my annoyance was because I wanted to think eggs were “ok” as long as free range etc and didn’t want to think about the logistics of male chicks being less useful etc, same with dairy and taking calves from their mothers. My kids eat animal products and that’s fine, but they do need to understand that animals do suffer from food instead of sticking their heads in the sand like I did for many years

sticking their heads in the sand

I think you have captured it perfect @Worriedatwork1 especially with the feeling annoyed bit too.

Accompanying my daughter filming for her university project means we get insights into the local farming community.
What I've learned

1. Many farmers are scared to speak out for fear of being targeted by extremist - who wouldn't hurt an animal, but would happily cause a human to live in fear for themselves and their families, often not even bothering to check what they farm (the union rep made the university vouch for her, and doesn't want the film to be made public)
2. Farmers love their animals - they wouldn't work so hard for little rewards otherwise. And the trust between them is obvious.
3. Small scale British farms do not contribute to climate change. Many have the the figures to prove it. The figures banded about are based on US practices.
4. Animals are often farmed on land unsuitable for other crops, and ploughing up grass for other crops would release the carbon stored into the atmosphere.
5. Where Animals are fed any other than home grown feed, this tends to be made from waste from human food, such as soy after being made into milk using the remaining nutrients that would otherwise be wasted, and emit greenhouse gases
6. Cows aren't maternal, often ignoring their calves, and show no distress when calves are removed

I fully understand why many people chose veganism. But please check where your information is from, and don't blame climate change for your choices.

It is hard for low income families to make the swap IMO because it isn't just milk, but also cheese, yoghurts, ice cream and anything else dairy.
I can afford to buy oat milk (my fave) and coconut yoghurt but it is bloody expensive. If we need to go carbon neutral, we need affordable alternatives otherwise it becomes a middle class luxury rather than necessity.

@BellatricksStrange

Our morals and ethics are a social construct and social contract. Animals are not part of that contract, therefore we don't owe them anything. As far as I'm concerned, animals have zero rights.

If we want milk, and cows have it, we can go ahead and take it.

The only place I'd draw the line is wanton and gratuitous cruelty to animals. Only because I don't want to live in a cruel society, but not because we owe it to the animals.

Jesus christ this is one of the most self-centred and depressing world views I've read in a long while. The planet is fucked if it's full of people who think like you.

Presumably you completely agree with wiping out tigers for some lovely floor rugs too?

You do know that animals feel emotions don't you? That lots of mammals have very similar brain systems to us - they play, feel empathy, feel joy, have memories - elephants hold funerals, humpback whales will defend seals from orcas, fuck me even rats LAUGH, did you know that?? That rats laugh when they're tickled?! Just for the hell of it?

But you're right, sod everything else on this planet, only humans are special enough to have the right to be here, and there's only 9 billion of us after all so best to prioritise humans above all else.

@TwittleBee

sticking their heads in the sand

I think you have captured it perfect @Worriedatwork1 especially with the feeling annoyed bit too.

I think though it's really hard for most people who have a strong belief in something (in this case veganism) to accept that some (by no means all) people can see the same videos, hear the same information, read the same literature, understand the vegans point of view, accept their point and still come to a different decision. There's always lots of "if you knew..", "if you'd seen...", "If you'd worked in..." But no acceptance that people have different tolerances, different things that bother them.

6. Cows aren't maternal, often ignoring their calves, and show no distress when calves are removed

This is absolutely untrue. Calves make a noise akin to a scream (I'm not saying they scream, they make a very high pitched whine/ moo) wanting their mothers.

Yes. I suppose that's a good point you raise @Socialcarenope as I do always wonder how people can sit by and watch people get abused and murdered etc. Or even on a lesser scale, not stand up to toxic work environments or not be bothered by breaking regulations at work.

I do have a polarized thinking pattern from having ASD though, so perhaps that's why I see right/wrong

For goodness sake 🙄🙄🙄

@Socialcarenope

6. Cows aren't maternal, often ignoring their calves, and show no distress when calves are removed

This is absolutely untrue. Calves make a noise akin to a scream (I'm not saying they scream, they make a very high pitched whine/ moo) wanting their mothers.

She said cows aren't maternal not that the calves don't want their mums.

Some are, some aren't in my experience.
One of our cows is affectionately called the baby snatcher , she loves all babies, hers or not and will feed any baby.
Some can't even be bothered to luck them when they are born.
This is the problem with statements on both sides of the argument. They generalise.

*lick them

I've had soya, almond and oat milk in tea and they all taste much the same. I do eat dairy but don't have milk. I do buy unsweetened