COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

@Kennykenkencat

Is it strange that I have never supplemented B12. I once bought a spray that had B vitamins in and I have a spray when I can remember which is about 1 or 2 times per month

Not strange, but ill-advised.

B12 deficiency is practically silent, until it isn't.

@twinkletoesimnot growing vegan food takes 93% land than animal farming, so I am sure there will be more than enough space for trees and food growth.

Re fertiliser, quoted from here:
www.quora.com/How-would-vegan-farms-fertilise-their-crops-Would-this-be-possible-on-a-worldwide-scale

"There are a few Vegan friendly techniques ready to fertilize crops, that are already practiced worldwide. Growing polycultures with nitrogen-fixing crops in the mix is a good idea for so many reasons, it just happens to be vegan as well. An example of this system is well known - corn (not the sweet stuff, but the kind for storage and making tortillas) grown with dry beans (the nitrogen fixer, it helps feed the crop and uses corn as a scaffold) grown with squash (has big leaves which act as weed suppressant). This system is called the 'Three sisters', and was practiced by native Americans centuries ago. It is still relevant today. In fact, any polyculture will have nitrogen fixers to feed the crops. Black locusts grown with chestnuts, clovers grown between rows of grapes, and alfalfa with tomatoes are all interesting examples of how to feed your crops, using other crops.

The second technique, and far more widely practiced, is the use of cover crops to build organic matter and fertility in the soil. Tilling results in huge losses of rodents and other animals that Vegans are fond of not killing, so I think a no-till cover crop approach is best for this situation. There are very few plant deficiencies that will arise if organic matter is high. Earthworms and countless microbes as well as mycorrhizae will feed the plants just fine as they break down residues from previous crops. How do you keep from killing little animals? Run your dairy cows in your cover crop when it is time to kill tge crop and plant new. They will eat 50% of the above ground plant matter, push over and trample the rest, and little mice will escape, as they always do. Of course, you need an extremely high density of cows to make this work; anywhere from 500,000 to 1million pounds per acre in small paddocks on rotation. All that urine and manure will cycle nutrients around your field, as well, so no need to spread manure or fertilizer with a tractor. You don't have to drink milk to see that cows who live in this manner are humanely treated, and love working on the farm fertilizing the crops for your navy bean hummus and naan."

"https://www.quora.com/How-would-vegan-farms-fertilise-their-crops-Would-this-be-possible-on-a-worldwide-scale

You can keep dogs abs cats in your home, abs horses are kept as a hobby/lifestyle. Unless you suggest people start riding pigs and cows 🙄

vegan food What is vegan food?

@loloballlolo

Dairy cows???
Where are they coming from in your vegan world?

Especially a large number of them (as you describe.)

I wonder, will your food crops grow up in the Welsh mountains or on the hill farms which grow lambs so well?

@loloballlolo

I think it's ironic how the anti vegan brigade has come on this thread (which was one new vegan asking for other vegans for advice about a milk substitute, clearly not to spread pro vegan sentiment) to bash vegans and then spout the usual "militant vegan" crap when they are the ones sticking their oar in.

Because they can’t handle the truth … that’s why.

@Quiettiger
“ FFS I am so sick of farmers being vilified as evil bastards who exploit their animals for ££ and don't give a shit about them. The majority of the general public have no fucking clue how their food is produced. Instead of buying into the Vegan anti-farming agenda”. Most people don’t care what their food goes through before it reaches their plate. Turn a blind eye to it. Most animals are eaten after a few months/years of life- how is that ok.
But this was more of a food /drink substitute post. If you like meat and enjoy dairy milk etc there’s really no need to come on and tell us- basically as you were. Live near let live- off you pop lol

I’m not Vegan. I don’t eat cows, pigs or lambs. I tend to get a bad stomach after eating meat in any case (or did when I ate it) I do eat chicken and fish- rarely. I don’t particularly like milk (apart from in tea) I’d never sit down and drink a glass of milk. @saleorbouy I don’t like leather, but I wouldn’t say I actively avoid it as such. There’s always pleather… is it?
I’m not sure how sustainable our needs are full stop. Our consumption is generally out of control - and I mean everything. We are a ‘throw away’ nation. Even when it comes to things like soft furnishings in our homes, changing colour schemes, throwing away the ‘old’ stuff that sometimes is only a few months or years old. My cousin had two colour scheme changes last year- so brand new cushions, curtains, rugs, wallpaper, paint and whatever else. Perfectly lovely things that went down the tip. It’s a shocking waste. Everything seems cheap, doesn’t last.
Not sure what the answer is.
@Kennykenkencat I don’t like the smell of leather either. That link to the Vegan Mormons is interesting, along with vegan leather! @loloballlolo who knew!

My farmer friend has cows & some are aged 20
They graze in the fields
Milked twice a day, every day (no calling in sick)
He knows & loves them all
Also provides tours for schools (not during covid)

@M1nd0fAMagp1E Now I would definitely have that milk in my tea! 🥰🐄

B12 deficiency is practically silent, until it isn't.

This, my daughter was very deficient but didn't realise until she started to lose the feeling in her hands. We had a worrying time waiting for tests, thinking it was potentially more serious and another worrying time thinking she might have permanent nerve damage. Her ferritin was on the floor too. She's not even vegetarian, just a fussy eater, fortunatley her B12 is fine now, ferritin is another matter though.

@StylishMummy

If anyone had a clue about British farming - you'd see this is vegan sensationalist propaganda

Agree

B12 is in marmite, nutritional yeast, regular cereals and most of the standard plant milks so I don't see that as an issue for anyone now?

I'm a vegetarian but I worked on a dairy farm for a year in Australia when I was younger. Nothing I saw during my time there put me off consuming dairy. The owner was passionate about the welfare of the cows (happy healthy cows, more and better quality milk). I saw more cruelty on a kiwi fruit farm. They used to go round destroying birds nests, eggs and killing off any baby birds they found to protect the fruit.

@pompomseverywhere

B12 is in marmite, nutritional yeast, regular cereals and most of the standard plant milks so I don't see that as an issue for anyone now?

It's a huge issue if you don't ensure you get enough of it!

If you only have plant milk in a tea or 2 a day and rarely eat cereal, marmite and nutritional yeast then yes, you'll struggle to get sufficient amounts. I personally don't use any plant milks as I don't like them (why I'm not n this thread), I also don't eat cereal much and I don't like marmite. I do have nutritional yeast in the cupboard but often forget to put it on food.

@malificent7 you are completely wrong. Rewinding relies on grazing animals to ensure a healthy ecosystem and soil structure.

Some farms now have a "milkshake bar" where you can buy milk direct from a chilled vending machine at the farm & the glass bottles can be recycled. It makes it a bit more interactive if you live near a farm

These animals will ALL still end up at the slaughter house. The kill line is no easier for one that produced organic milk than the rest. I have worked at a slaughter house.
There was no 'humane' knife that slit their throat. These animals are not given food/water for up to 24 hours before processing.
It was hell on earth for them. So by all means, feel free to shit a dead animal out your arse, but don't kid yourself that they don't suffer. They do.

I know people that lived through the years of Government food rationing

It is easier to pick & choose food when times are more plentiful

I don't eat meat
I don't have pets

I don't tell other people what they can eat

We are fortunate that we live in a time that we can choose

So by all means, feel free to shit a dead animal out your arse

That's an incredibly childish level of discourse, along with "ew secretions" and "chicken periods".

You have no idea how privileged you are being able to chose to eat a Western vegan diet. In very poor countries where people have little choice, the small amounts of animal products poorer people do have access to, mostly offal and chicken heads and feet, are what stand between them and serious malnutrition. I just find this discourse from some privileged person in the west so disrespect and frankly clueless.

I can also guarantee a death in an abattoir is considerably more pleasant than that of most animals in the wild.

It may be the case that in some countries if people have scraps of meat available of course they will take it. That said countries with the lowest meat consumption tend to be the poorest:

www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-consume-the-least-meat.html

Because growing vegetables and grains is far cheaper and requires less resources.

@M1nd0fAMagp1E

I know people that lived through the years of Government food rationing

It is easier to pick & choose food when times are more plentiful

I don't eat meat
I don't have pets

I don't tell other people what they can eat

We are fortunate that we live in a time that we can choose

I totally agree with you and I'm a sheep farmer. And the thing is all the food we eat is produced by farmers. Arable and livestock farmers in this country are straining every sinew to produce food as ethically as we can.

OP you can buy milk from cows that don't get their calves taken away. It's called a suckling herd. More likely to be organic, small farms. Delicatessens might stock it. Or a farm locally might do delivery.

It is definitely a thing!

I read somewhere that some countries are looking at making food out of millions of fast growing insects

This type of food may be cheaper & quicker to produce than say beef

In that case, be careful what you wish for !

The farmers will also tell you that their costs have increased x3, but that milk is still sold at the same price

Consumers only see the end product & want reasonably priced food
Consumers don't see the work that the farmer has done

I have a lot of vegan friends who often share videos and the way they twist things is amazing.

A recent one was a dairy cow on the back of a truck going for slaughter. It was horrid but not in the UK

The one that really made me laugh was a video on how cows are tied up in shackles in barns and how cruel that is. It was a cow that had done the splits and was on box rest ffs, whilst I don't think cruelty is ok a tiny bit of ignorant knowledge is just as bad.

Also for PP yes things have changed a LOT in the past 10/20 years in the dairy industry, blimey they have even changed in the past 2 years