COW

[Suzi888]

chooseveg.com/blog/documentary-cow/

Anyone watched this… I can’t bring myself to watch it, but it’ll be coming to cinemas shortly.

What is the best milk substitute you have tried? Specifically when added to tea, I don’t mind the substitutes in cereal but my tea tastes grim without milk.

Scianel

I think the red meat issue is about consuming too much but the amount you are supposed to eat daily is so tiny that most people go over it

I will say one thing about being vegan.
I went through the menopause and didn’t have one hot flash. I didn’t suffer from any physical side effects.

Found out that being vegan does reduce physical menopausal symptoms

If you like creamy milk- go for unsweetened oat
If you like non creamy go for soy milk, sweetened if you have a sugar and unsweetened if you don't

In cereal almond milk

I love oat milk in an Americano

I really like almond milk but since reading about its effect on the environment etc have switched to oat milk, it does take some getting used to not going to lie, but now it tastes good. I think maybe just try a few and see what works best, you can get some batista editions, the oatly one is also fortified with iodine which is good.

@StylishMummy

If anyone had a clue about British farming - you'd see this is vegan sensationalist propaganda

Exactly what *StylishMummy said. Instead of being influenced by the rabid vegan agenda, why don't you visit a British dairy farm on an open farm Sunday and actually ask dairy farmers questions about their cows and find out for yourself how they actually treat their animals.

FFS I am so sick of farmers being vilified as evil bastards who exploit their animals for ££ and don't give a shit about them. The majority of the general public have no fucking clue how their food is produced. Instead of buying into the Vegan anti-farming agenda, do some research about British farming and they way it is done.

@Quiettiger most people I know who are veggie or vegan (myself included) are because we don't want to eat animals or their by products. Personally I still wouldn't if they were kept in amazing conditions that treated them like royalty, because the thought of putting an animals flesh into my body I find absolutely disgusting, and ultimately the end result is the same. There are some militant vegans who preach about stuff perhaps they don't understand, and whilst they are vocal they aren't the majority.

But the animals still end up in an abattoirs coming to an untimely death no matter how well they were treated

That NHS link is still encouraging that awful discredited food pyramid.

Humans have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. Europeans are largely even genetically adapted to tolerate non fermented milk beyond infanthood.

I cannot fathom the health benefits in swapping these for the very highly processed foods that many vegans eat, although admittedly some do eat in a more wholefood focused way.
I'm also dubious of any diet that requires additional supplementation.

[quote Lampshading]@Quiettiger most people I know who are veggie or vegan (myself included) are because we don't want to eat animals or their by products. Personally I still wouldn't if they were kept in amazing conditions that treated them like royalty, because the thought of putting an animals flesh into my body I find absolutely disgusting, and ultimately the end result is the same. There are some militant vegans who preach about stuff perhaps they don't understand, and whilst they are vocal they aren't the majority.[/quote]
And that's an entirely reasonable personal choice. What is frustrating is the constant spread of misinformation and blatant lies, designed to misinform to push a vegan agenda in the UK.

Take for example the (very nasty) feed lots in the USA, or the way pigs are kept in crates there, stuffed full of antibiotics and growth hormones we're not allowed to use in the UK (thank god). The militant vegan agenda is using that information and claiming it is happening in the UK which is a blatant untruth. But that doesn't stop the general public believing it happens here.

My argument is that I don't care if someone is vegan or not - it's an entirely personal choice, but at least familiarise yourself with farming practices used to get that product.

@Kennykenkencat

But the animals still end up in an abattoirs coming to an untimely death no matter how well they were treated

Yes, they do. And it's an entirely personal choice to be vegan or vegetarian and it's not for me to argue it.

But I can argue against the emotive misrepresentation of how farming is portrayed by the militant vegan agenda.

Personally I've only seen it acknowledged that it's worse elsewhere but still pretty bad here, which it is in many cases. I grew up rural and have been on many farms, I agree farmers work exceptionally hard and care for the animals, but the treatment of chickens especially is grim.

I won't be watching it, along with Earthling, Seaspiricy, all those other great films because it immobilised me with sadness at how superior and lofty and abusive we are. I'm talking about driving past a lorry stuffed with chicken crates on the motorway, their beaks gaping for air,.le.and battered and less than 5 weeks old going to the abbatoir. I'm talking about the dairy turned crop farmers worn down by decades of separating grieving cows from their children and hearing their howls. I'm talking about fucking Nandos and fucking Maccy Ds and our fucking instagram culture of cheap, cheap, cheap chicken now, all the time, 24 hours a day, delivered battered to my house from a baby bird, grotesquely grown out of all proportion in a huge hangar full of desperate, cannibalistic chickens unable to feel any joy, sunshine or action any natural processes. Mrs Mumsnet 'I watch the local animals from my upstairs window and eat only those ones' does not represent the majority of animal consumption from takeaway, fast food, sandwiches, cake ingredients, easy prepackaged stuff from the supermarket that we all consume but will not admit to because we know it's not ethical and local, but boy is it convenient and easy to not think about it and take your kids to the petting farm baby animals instead, the ones replaced all the time because they're being slaughtered etc. For example.

lol, "militant vegan agenda". Sure, vegans are the real problem here.

(not a vegan, by the way)

I think it's ironic how the anti vegan brigade has come on this thread (which was one new vegan asking for other vegans for advice about a milk substitute, clearly not to spread pro vegan sentiment) to bash vegans and then spout the usual "militant vegan" crap when they are the ones sticking their oar in.

It’s in AIBU so you should expect a wide range of views.

@Scianel

That NHS link is still encouraging that awful discredited food pyramid.

Humans have been eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. Europeans are largely even genetically adapted to tolerate non fermented milk beyond infanthood.

I cannot fathom the health benefits in swapping these for the very highly processed foods that many vegans eat, although admittedly some do eat in a more wholefood focused way.
I'm also dubious of any diet that requires additional supplementation.

I do think that the natural vegan diet is very healthy and if we were still farming our own veg for every meal their wouldn't be the need for b12 supplementation. I think the problem is like with all diets, the move from the natural.

Lol @StylishMummy. Im a Vegan farmers wife! See it 1st hand. Hear it 1st hand. But sure you promote your narrative 🙄

Apparently they have to add B12 into animal feed, that is the only reason it is present in meat / animal products. So if they didn't do that meat eaters would have to supplement B12 anyway just like vegans.

bbarrx.com/blog/2018/7/20/b12-meat-is-not-the-answer#:~:text=Vitamin%20B12%20is%20not%20made,made%20by%20microorganisms%20(bacteria).&text=Farmed%20animals%20receive%20B12%20by,drinking%20untreated%20(contaminated)%20water.

@shedevill absolutely spot on

I’m a vegan and I don’t think farmers are evil - I think they are indoctrinated like most of society into thinking our ‘right’ to a 15 minute meal is more important than an animals life. A cup of tea is worth stealing a baby cow from its mother.

If I kicked my dog or kept him chained up people would be horrified - but will happily pay someone to slit the throat of their Sunday lunch and pour some of their bodily fluids on pudding.

The real propaganda and indoctrination doesn’t come from vegans - it comes from feeding children meat and dairy and telling them it’s normal.

Your right to choose to not be vegan isn’t a personal choice when it involves taking the life of another to satisfy that personal choice.

Lots of plant milks are fortified with calcium, vit b12 and Iodine so choose the best one for your needs.

For children alpro does a great growing up milk for toddlers and babies over 1.

@loloballlolo

Apparently they have to add B12 into animal feed, that is the only reason it is present in meat / animal products. So if they didn't do that meat eaters would have to supplement B12 anyway just like vegans.

Only in non- grazing animals (she'd kept cows etc). B12 is a microorganism found in soil. When you eat soil you get b12 so in naturally reared animals and humans that eat dirt from improperly washed veg get it naturally. It's why it wasn't an issue historically. It's an issue because we are too clean!

*shed, not she'd

We need farmed cattle to die out so that reforestation can start. I am thinking of going vegan again as with all the amazing vegan products on sale I don't fancy animal products anymore.

Is it strange that I have never supplemented B12. I once bought a spray that had B vitamins in and I have a spray when I can remember which is about 1 or 2 times per month

@malificent7

We need farmed cattle to die out so that reforestation can start. I am thinking of going vegan again as with all the amazing vegan products on sale I don't fancy animal products anymore.

Where will we grow all the vegan food if you plant trees everywhere? Do you want to use fertiliser from the gas / oil industry instead of manure to grow it?

It's a bit like using productive land for solar farms instead of putting them on roofs etc.

Madness!