What about... Still enjoying Boris' downfall Part 4. The one with the report released?

[jgw1]

Part 4

How fucking depressing

Amen to that. I really feel I now live in a corrupt country.

For the record I also condemn the civil servants who have taken part in this. I really dislike those who become too political and toady in order to further their own careers. Absolutely part of the problem.

But it does not excuse the politicians. Every time I hear a Tory Minister say they’re waiting for the facts I feel like screaming that we shouldn’t need a fucking enquiry to find these out.

AgreedRino. Maybe a chorus of "for he's a jolily good fellow' to end with, and, of course, a big 2-fingers-to-you-all garden party at Downing St in celebration. I expect nothing less.

Amen to that. I really feel I now live in a corrupt country

I agree that the Englush*/UK government is corrupt.

*This was one of my many typos, but I think perhaps Eng"lush" is apt in this context!

DePfeffoff:
The conductor of the orchestra has nothing to do with the box office or arrangements for the venue

Exactly, just has a minister or prime minister has nothing to do with some of the things that people here would like to blame him for.

Excellent Twitter thread re: Dick's unsavoury past-
twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1487396097685348358?s=20&t=81KY_6M1gBmoQF2EDFv6Ag

@Florianus

DePfeffoff: The conductor of the orchestra has nothing to do with the box office or arrangements for the venue

Exactly, just has a minister or prime minister has nothing to do with some of the things that people here would like to blame him for.

You keep saying that, but when the person who is responsible for the rules being made walks into (on his own admission) not one but two events that blatantly broke the rules, and does nothing about it, he emphatically is to blame.

"not one but two events that blatantly broke the rules, and does nothing about it,"

This isn't true. He did something - a year and a bit later he told Parliament there were no parties and then he said any party followed the guidelines and then he appointed Simon Case to investigate.

So he did lots really.

DePfeffoff:
You keep saying that, but when the person who is responsible for the rules being made

You keep saying thatm but it only goes to show that you do not understand the British constitution. The rules were made by Cabinet - they have collective responsibility for all decisions.

Cabinet chaired by....

But if the Cabinet want to take responsibility for the PM's parties and subsequent denials that's fine by me.

Flo, what is the point of a leader if not to take responsibility? Do you have any knowledge of constitutional law beyond what you've read on Google?

I provide legal advice to charities (I am qualified to do so). Most charities run along the same lines as the government. While all the trustees get a vote on important decisions, the casting vote remains with the chair, and they are ultimately responsible for every decision made. In all my time in this role I've never had a chair that has failed to understand this, or to dodge responsibility.

ClaudineClare thanks for sharing that thread, seeing it summarised like that is just horrifying

Flo, what is the point of a leader if not to take responsibility?

Yes, this. Flo's picture of Johnson as PM appears to be of a man who just happens to be bumbling round Downing Street, and gatecrashing other people's parties. Now that might be his own perception of the job, oiled by nice helpings of taxpayers money/Tory donors cash for favours, but I think most of us would like PM who attempted to do the job.

@Notonthestairs

Cabinet chaired by....

But if the Cabinet want to take responsibility for the PM's parties and subsequent denials that's fine by me.

They were not, as far as anyone knows, the result of cabinet decisions.

He even admitted responsibility himself, he said he should have sent the not party goers back inside but he didn’t. These threads are bonkers when posters try to pretend he’s not responsible when he himself has said he is.

I think it was thread 1 where we established that Johnson is just the messenger

@CorrBlimeyGG

Flo, what is the point of a leader if not to take responsibility? Do you have any knowledge of constitutional law beyond what you've read on Google?

I provide legal advice to charities (I am qualified to do so). Most charities run along the same lines as the government. While all the trustees get a vote on important decisions, the casting vote remains with the chair, and they are ultimately responsible for every decision made. In all my time in this role I've never had a chair that has failed to understand this, or to dodge responsibility.

It's basic A-level politics. All ministers have an equal say in policy decisions, including the PM but the PM does not get any sort of "casting vote" (whatever that may mean). Cabinet discusses policy but does not vote on it - if a minister disagrees they are expected to leave Cabinet.

It is a great mistake to think that the UK has moved to some sort of presidential (or even dictatorial) system - largely brought about by media coverage of politics, although PMs such as Blair and Johnson are also guilty of cultivating that image.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60183030

"Senior Tories have joined opposition MPs in demanding the report on No 10 lockdown parties be published in full.
MP Sir Christopher Chope accused the Met Police of an "abuse of power", amid concerns senior civil servant Sue Gray will leave out crucial findings.
Doubts over how complete the report will be came after the Met asked her to make "minimal reference" to events they are looking at."

@Blossomtoes

He even admitted responsibility himself, he said he should have sent the not party goers back inside but he didn’t. These threads are bonkers when posters try to pretend he’s not responsible when he himself has said he is.

Of course he says it !!! Do you really believe him ?

Anyway, it seems that some Senior Tories are not happy about the Sue Gray report being held back.

Just in passing I note that it says that Fixed Penalty Notices can be up to £10,000. Who would have thought that reading these threads? More like FPNs are a £200 fine and a slapped wrist.

@DuncinToffee

I think it was thread 1 where we established that Johnson is just the messenger

Don't start fibbing. Nobody suggested he was just the messenger. I pointed out that when he stood at the podium he was simply conveying the message that cabinet (or parliament in the case of laws) had decided.

You may recall that before Johnson, the Health Secretary (until he disgraced himself) frequently delivered these messages. Nobody was daft enough to describe them as Hancock's rules - we all know that they were what government (in the form of Cabinet) or parliament had decided. At least, I hope we did - I am beginning to think that some people have a very poor grasp of how UK government works.

You may recall that before Johnson, the Health Secretary (until he disgraced himself) frequently delivered these messages.

Indeed so, but this could have been as much to do with Johnson's penchant for absenting himself when there is any work to be done.

@Peregrina

Anyway, it seems that some Senior Tories are not happy about the Sue Gray report being held back.

Just in passing I note that it says that Fixed Penalty Notices can be up to £10,000. Who would have thought that reading these threads? More like FPNs are a £200 fine and a slapped wrist.

It can be £10,000 for serious contravention of the rules - e.g. holding a party for 200 people, or trying to interfere with the police issuing fines or dispersing people. However, it was reported by ITV last year that few of these large fines were issued, and most were never paid, either being ignored or challenged. Of course, if someone can't pay (which is often the case) it can be more expensive to pursue a bad debt than ignore it.

@Florianus You may recall that before Johnson, the Health Secretary (until he disgraced himself) frequently delivered these messages. Nobody was daft enough to describe them as Hancock's rules - we all know that they were what government (in the form of Cabinet) or parliament had decided. At least, I hope we did - I am beginning to think that some people have a very poor grasp of how UK government works

It's a shame that the former health secretary and the PM didn't have a better grasp of how the Covid rules worked.

“It's basic A-level politics. All ministers have an equal say in policy decisions, including the PM but the PM does not get any sort of "casting vote" (whatever that may mean). Cabinet discusses policy but does not vote on it - if a minister disagrees they are expected to leave Cabinet.

It is a great mistake to think that the UK has moved to some sort of presidential (or even dictatorial) system - largely brought about by media coverage of politics, although PMs such as Blair and Johnson are also guilty of cultivating that image.”

You miss the point over and over again.

This is legislation enacted by Johnson’s government. His job is to lead.

“The Prime Minister is the leader of Her Majesty’s Government and is ultimately responsible for the policy and decisions of the government.”

www.gov.uk/government/ministers/prime-minister

Fundamentally this isn’t about what fines need to be paid, but about lies, incompetence and inability live up to the standards that he asked if others.

I also remember Johnson sitting behind a desk addresssing the nation