What about... Still enjoying Boris' downfall Part 4. The one with the report released?

[jgw1]

Part 4

And I suppose you will try to defend the CS by saying that the drinking culture of theNo.10staff (which is at the very centre of Partygate) was OK because you don't consider them to to be civil servants?

Um, no?

I fully condemn all the No.10 and any other civil servants who flouted the rules and participated in Partygate. They are a disgrace to the profession. Most civil servants did not behave that way during the pandemic.

Agree with every word about folk grieving what we've lost - also about the horrors continuing to appear - but I still think it'll take a LOT more than this to get rid of someone sitting on a comfortable majority
The thought of other MPs losing their cushy numbers might do it, but we'd need a really good alternative for that and right now I'm not convinced it'll be enough

And I don't say these things because I want them to be so, only that this is how it could easily be

@Roussette

But we won't forget will we... Lots of the public won't

No, we won’t. After all nobody’s forgotten Blair and the Iraq war, have they?

Voters were angry enough after the Paterson affair despite the u-turn and this time it is a lot more personal.

It is not about cake!

@UnconditionalSurrender

Things must've been so bad in Downing Street during lockdown they were using the Cabinet Room as a make do Cafeteria. With free food and cake. Its the blitz spirit.

However, back in the real world DH's work were doing a only one person in the kitchen at a time for those that had to go in.

In the real world I worked physically close to other people I don’t think only going into the kitchen one at a time was going to make a huge difference. Daily Covid tests at work (tent outside in the car park or in a spare room) in the morning pre starting work was the way things were/are done.

Exactly!
The anger runs deep with this debacle

Lawyers slogging away on year after year of conveyancing documents work under very different conditions to those who earn astronic fees on corporate law deals and (like Cheri Blair) human rights law

@Florianus, I hope you don't imagine that lawyers working on human rights cases get astronomic fees. The majority of such cases are done on legal aid for which the pay is absolutely pathetic.

Checking in

ClaudineClare:
I fully condemn all the No.10 and any other civil servants who flouted the rules and participated in Partygate

Ah well, we can certainly agree on that.

"Daily Covid tests at work (tent outside in the car park or in a spare room) in the morning pre starting work was the way things were/are done."

Kenny - Were these daily tests done in June 2020?

"Three reasons.

1. Boris will not have a personality transplant and the mistakes will continue to pile up.
2. leaks will continue
3. So many people were impacted by the legislation, whether they are furious because they think he callously disregarded loss of life or callously disregarded loss if freedom."

I think this from merrymouse is spot on.

Its got all very Trumpist. Johnson doesn't care about truth or scandal or work ethic or country. It depends whether the Tory Party go full GOP or get rid of him.
I mean everyone knows he lied, everyone knows hes broken the law. Everyone knows that normal standards of decency don't apply to him and he degrades the country every day he stays as PM. We don't need Sue Gray or the Met to tell us that. Its whether his own party will eventually balk at that. I'm honestly quite shocked they haven't already and I am not a fan of the Torys.

And I suppose you will try to defend the CS by saying that the drinking culture of the No.10 staff (which is at the very centre of Partygate) was OK because you don't consider them to to be civil servants?

Of course that culture, particularly during the pandemic, is indefensible. And that includes the person at the top who carries ultimate responsibility and allowed it to carry on. The fact that no-one can conceive of the possibility of that sort of culture under Thatcher, Major, Blair or Brown says it all.

twitter.com/skynews/status/1487383068646297600?s=21
Tom Tugendhat throws his hat.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

i suspect Partygate will quietly slip away into the long grass regardless of whether it is published or in whatever form

Things like this pretty generally do. There's the usual outrage at the time, but it surprises me that people expect it would be any different

I too think it will be different. No-one is really going to forget being unable to hug people they love when they were dying, or when they were at funerals, whilst Johnson and his wife and mates were knocking back BYOB in the garden or laying into the drink, M&S party snacks and birthday cake around the cabinet table. And questions about it all, along with Paterson, covid deaths, and constant lies, will come up again and again. Johnson may be able to bluster through it in Parliament with the Speaker to protect him from accusations of lying, he won't be so invulnerable if he actually goes to talk to the electorate. And there's only so much time he can spend hiding in fridges.

DePfeffoff:
Of course that culture, particularly during the pandemic, is indefensible. And that includes the person at the top who carries ultimate responsibility and allowed it to carry on

I once saw the job of the PM described as similar to that of the conductor of an orchestra. Yes, responsible for the performance as a whole, but nobody in their right mind would blame the conductor for the second oboist playing a bum note, for the orchestral manager failing to put out enough chairs, or for the box office mischarging for seats.

The days of ministers taking (in theory only) responsibility for the mistakes of their staff are long gone. If the Met decide to issue Fixed Penalty Notices, it will be to the people who attended the events in question, and to those who invited others to them.

I bet Johnson is out of the country when the redacted report is finally published. He will be in a fridge in Ukraine.

@Notonthestairs

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1487383068646297600?s=21 Tom Tugendhat throws his hat.

Is he hoping to be the stalking horse? I don't think he stands much chance in reality, having had no experience as a junior minister, let alone as a Secretary of State with experience of Cabinet.

I once saw the job of the PM described as similar to that of the conductor of an orchestra. Yes, responsible for the performance as a whole, but nobody in their right mind would blame the conductor for the second oboist playing a bum note, for the orchestral manager failing to put out enough chairs, or for the box office mischarging for seats

Then it's a poor comparison. The conductor of the orchestra has nothing to do with the box office or arrangements for the venue - though he might be blamed for the bum note if he's been careless in recruiting orchestra members or in conducting adequate rehearsals. Think about, instead, the owners of a restaurant where the waiter is careless and pours wine over a customer's expensive dress, or a staff member leaves a chair out of place and someone falls over. It's the owners who will get sued and have to pay up.

"Is he hoping to be the stalking horse? I don't think he stands much chance in reality, having had no experience as a junior minister, let alone as a Secretary of State with experience of Cabinet."

Obviously I have no idea what is in his mind. But I think you may have just described his potential appeal!

He might be a candidate for others to coalesce around and he has a certain drain the swamp appeal.

It's an interesting move today anyway.

I don't think he stands much chance in reality, having had no experience as a junior minister, let alone as a Secretary of State with experience of Cabinet.

You say it like that’s a bad thing. I don’t want anyone with experience of this mendacious, corrupt cabinet anywhere near power when Johnson’s gone.

@Kennykenkencat In the real world I worked physically close to other people I don’t think only going into the kitchen one at a time was going to make a huge difference.Daily Covid tests at work (tent outside in the car park or in a spare room) in the morning pre starting work was the way things were/are done

Except there was no community testing available in lockdown 1 when a lot of these parties were happening. The only mitigations at work were hands, face, space - which is why it was so important that people only WORKED in their place of work if they had to. Remember too there was minimal PPE available in lockdown one.

There were loads of threads at the time saying how ridiculous it was to that you could sit (2metres) next to someone at work but not socialise with the same person after work finished eg have a beer together in the conference room at the end of the day as social meetings outside your household were banned!

My guess is that Florianus was involved in OFSTED or such like back in the 90’s - not sure that fully reflects how the actual civil service or Government operate in 2020s.

Totally agree anyone who arranged or attended non-work focused events (held at place of work) should be held to account for breaking lockdown rules at the time. If they were personally involved in setting those rules for the rest of the country to follow but didn’t abide by them themselves I don’t know how they can uphold the law with any authority?

My prediction at this stage:

Gray’s report will be so redacted or reduced to the point it’s totally worthless and of zero substance.

At which point the Met will declare there is insufficient evidence and no further action being taken.

This will be closely followed by Johnson saying how they’ve all be totally cleared of any wrongdoing, that Gray’s report found nothing etc, so time to forget all about it.

How fucking depressing.

I don’t want anyone with experience of this mendacious, corrupt cabinet anywhere near power when Johnson’s gone

Neither do I, but that's what we'd almost certainly get because - to borrow an excellent quote - it's the cabinet who have the contacts and influence without the inconvenience of integrity

I also agree that the questions will continue (and probably get worse as more filth comes out) and so will the deflections and lies. Because that's politics, and because there are always more Sue Grays and Cressida Dick's who can be bought, or replaced and discredited if their price becomes too high