What about... Still enjoying Boris' downfall Part 4. The one with the report released?

[jgw1]

Part 4

Perhaps he's never worked for a QUANGO? (Hint: members are, at least in the three I worked for, unpaid and wouldn't do it if hospitality was not provided)

I am a bit confused @Florianus. You said that you worked alongside members of the Civil Service on three different QUANGOs in your career. I took that to mean you worked in three QUANGOs and met with civil servants as part of your QUANGO job.

But you reply to CSWife seems to suggest you did not work at a QUANGO but met with QUANGOs as part of your job.

If it is the latter, do you realise that QUANGOs are not part of the civil service, and that QUANGO staff are not civil servants?

Or did you volunteer at a QUANGO, Florianus and attend QUANGO meetings where hampers and claret were provided? Again if this was the case it has nothing to do with the Civil Service or civil servants or indeed ministers.

Oh I think I have my wires totally crossed about Florianus and their career. Sorry.

But what I am confused about Florianus is why you asked whether CSwife's husband ever worked for QUANGO as there is no reason he would have as he is a civil servant?

Tbf you do get quite a lot of movement of civil servants to arms length bodies and back again. Whether they are civil servants will depend on the classification of the body, but only the minority have civil servants I believe.

I very much do not recognise the claret and hampers paid for by the taxpayer, and was reasonably senior. Maybe one department I can think of where it sounds vaguely feasible in the recent past.

@ClaudineClare

Or did you volunteer at a QUANGO, Florianus and attend QUANGO meetings where hampers and claret were provided? Again if this was the case it has nothing to do with the Civil Service or civil servants or indeed ministers.

I was appointed as the representative of a professional association. I appreciate that things may have changed in the wake of the "bonfire of quangos" but the ones to which I was appointed were serviced by staff most of whom who returned to the government department from which they came in between quarterly meetings.

I don't thonk anyone should be surprised that different parts of large professions often work under totally different conditions. Lawyers slogging away on year after year of conveyancing documents work under very different conditions to those who earn astronic fees on corporate law deals and (like Cheri Blair) human rights laws; teachers slogging away for 35 periods a week with classes of 30 or more are in a different world to those in independent schools, teaching classes of 12 for perhaps only 15 periods a week, and with many perks to add to their salary, and so on.

@Binkybix

Tbf you do get quite a lot of movement of civil servants to arms length bodies and back again. Whether they are civil servants will depend on the classification of the body, but only the minority have civil servants I believe.

I very much do not recognise the claret and hampers paid for by the taxpayer, and was reasonably senior. Maybe one department I can think of where it sounds vaguely feasible in the recent past.

It would be very difficult to get members of QUANGOs without some reward, as at least some of us lost a day's pay for every day we spent on government business. The lavish lunch was the only reward.

That is true Binkybix. But Florianus has seemed to suggest the wine and hamper meetings were hosted by the CS.

But given Florianus' recent post, especially the part about unpaid QUANGO members not wanting to take on the role unless hospitality was provided at meetings, I wonder now whether the meetings were hosted by the QUANGOs.

Yes, if is wasn’t civil servants doing it, then it’s a bit of a moot point. If it’s a lunch to get some free work out of people, then meh.

The arms length bodies I have worked with are worse than the civil service in this sort of behaviour I think, but there has been huge change in many of them over the last decade or so.

Is Boz stretching this out so he can have his own 'Falklands' moment with Russia before May? I won't be responsible for my actions if I hear him utter the words 'our boys'.

@ClaudineClare

That is true Binkybix. But Florianus has seemed to suggest the wine and hamper meetings were hosted by the CS.

But given Florianus' recent post, especially the part about unpaid QUANGO members not wanting to take on the role unless hospitality was provided at meetings, I wonder now whether the meetings were hosted by the QUANGOs.

All three of the QUANGOs on which I served performed a regulatory function on behalf of the government departments from which they originally sprung. I am not going to say more than that.

Ok, so the QUANGOs you worked for had a wine and hamper hospitality culture, not the Civil Service. That has finally cleared that up.

@longwayoff

Is Boz stretching this out so he can have his own 'Falklands' moment with Russia before May? I won't be responsible for my actions if I hear him utter the words 'our boys'.

He is off to visit Ukraine next week and "talks" with Putin.... i suspect Partygate will quietly slip away into the long grass regardless of whether it is published or in whatever form.

A few staffers will get FPN's (if that) but that will be it.

Announcements on tax rises and fuel increases and job done.

its already annoying me . headlines the report could be watered down on orders , that he will manage to get away with this , hasnt really been pressured to resign , i cant stand the corruption of it all and worse clicking on the comments section underneath the headline for it and seeing all the daily mails faithful readers supporting it , one comment actually consisted of well he did deliver us brexit !! is a few parties such a big deal . no wonder he gets away with it

Is Boz stretching this out so he can have his own 'Falklands' moment with Russia before May?

Nothing like getting involved in a war to boost ratings at home

So we’ll probably see him cosplaying in army fatigues somewhere in Ukraine, a bit of stern waffling to the cameras and then back on the private jet home. Should waste a couple of days at least.

Some DM comments are scathing , but mostly people are of the ' move on ' he is a good leader type thing ..
He'll get away with it though , Dame Cressida will see to that

But we won't forget will we...
Lots of the public won't

I think the visit to Ukraine may be timed to postpone the report, or just avoid next week's PMQs.

@Roussette I think too many of the public will, especially if by the next general election there has been a new leader for a while.

@ClaudineClare

Ok, so the QUANGOs you worked for had a wine and hamper hospitality culture, not the Civil Service. That has finally cleared that up.

And I suppose you will try to defend the CS by saying that the drinking culture of the No.10 staff (which is at the very centre of Partygate) was OK because you don't consider them to to be civil servants?

i suspect Partygate will quietly slip away into the long grass regardless of whether it is published or in whatever form

Things like this pretty generally do. There's the usual outrage at the time, but it surprises me that people expect it would be any different

The Washington Post has listed all the parties and is very scathing

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/25/boris-johnson-parties-number-10/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=acq-intl&utm_campaign=eng-local-uk&utm_content=borisparties&twclid=11487371154188906496

There's a Netflix documentary, The Puppet Master, about a gaslighter extraordinaire. This government is doing to us what he did to his prey, exactly the same techniques, chip away at any established truths, slowly build your own narrative until it becomes the 'truth', cast doubt on the ability of the prey to make any autonomous decision and bring chaos which only the gaslighter can resolve. Classic. And people then believe they are willingly embracing whatever they are told. Orwell tried to warn us; we turned it into entertainment. I am very depressed about it all.

Alexandra2001:
A few staffers will get FPN's (if that) but that will be it.

I agree. It was never going to amount to more than that.

@Roussette

But we won't forget will we... Lots of the public won't

I think this is right. I don't think the public will "move on" in the way it might have done for other scandals. People are grieving, we have all lost almost two years of our normal lives, our children have had their education disrupted. Most of us "did our bit". All the time Johnson and co. were flouting the rules.

Things like this pretty generally do. There's the usual outrage at the time, but it surprises me that people expect it would be any different

Three reasons.

1. Boris will not have a personality transplant and the mistakes will continue to pile up.
2. leaks will continue
3. So many people were impacted by the legislation, whether they are furious because they think he callously disregarded loss of life or callously disregarded loss if freedom.