To think it’s disingenuous to say breastfeeding is free?

[Jerrui]

When pregnant encountered lots and lots of breastfeeding promotion- often it’s cited it being free as a benefit.

I have personally found as soon as you actually have a baby and are feeding it there is absolutely zero support. In my area there is no infant feeding team etc just community midwife who told me to substitute BF with FF at two weeks old when baby failed to regain birth weight.

I have spent hundreds of pounds on lactation consultant, double electric pump, milk storage, trying to keep breastfeeding going.

I have added formula top up and was shocked how cheap it is. We got bottles for free in those Emma’s diary type packs, and Aldi formula costs £2 a week.

I think trying to promote breastfeeding as a more economic option to pregnant women is stupid.
I feel actually public funds would be much better spend on training and recruiting to provide actual support to mothers trying to breastfeed, rather than health promotion with misleading, simplistic and dumbed down messages.
I feel it’s no wonder breastfeeding is mainly the preserve of the middle classes when you have to invest so much money to get any help!

@Goldenbear

I think you’ll find it’s now more a phrase from the matriarchy. It’s important to put an economic value in things. How many times have you read on here about women whose partners don’t share costs, expect them to pay half mortgage, bills etc. whilst off work in maternity. Nobody nurtures babies for money (unless you’re a nursery worker), that statement makes no sense at all! It’s important to show that women bringing up babies are doing a service would otherwise be paid (I.e. if we didn’t a man would have to outsource these tasks). I’m sure lots of women would love not to have to think of any economic costs to bringing up children, but sadly due to badly paid maternity leave, this is not a luxury for everyone.

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

Exactly! I think you’ve completely summed up what the OP was trying to say! We all know ff costs money, and we are all told that bf is free (one of the many benefits). That’s why it’s a bit of a surprise when people who haven’t been able to bf easily have had to spend money on it.

@Indecisive29e The difference for me personally was giving birth during a covid. There was no NCT, no community midwife/HV visits beyond the first 2 weeks - everything was over the phone or via video call

I think giving birth during covid has been horrendous for many women, not just due to the reduction in available care but also the remote support services for any kind of care or feeding.

Like you I had no local family but breastfeeding help could be in person. The NCT counselor actually sat with me to start with, had a cup of tea and literally helped me position the baby and myself in my own home. I guess in days of smaller, more scattered families that was the kind of help I might otherwise have had from a mother or aunt or even big sister. It would certainly have been much more difficult without that in person help. Even back then the "official" advice was full of hectoring to feed a certain way whilst the real help came largely from volunteers or if you were lucky enough to have a midwife with feeding experience.

A lot of the information is given on a best case scenario basis - yeah, in the best case scenario, breastfeeding is free - or the worst rather than the middle ground where most of us are in. There have been improvements over the years as people have pushed for clearer information, but it still shows up in places and yes, can be very frustrating.

I agree that some of the promotion expense would be better spent on better realistic and in-depth resources, training and support - though it would take far more than just the promotion expenses most likely - and that in some communities, there does seem to be a switch after the baby is born, though that often comes with other negativity well before then.

I particularly noticed it with my first as a teen mother (not middle class). The medical staff had been the only people other than my spouse who supported my choice to breastfeed before he was born - I spent pretty much that entire pregnancy getting told how disgusting it is and how I probably wouldn't be able to breastfeed anyway and getting all the horror stories & preparing myself for it to be hard - I grew up being told everything to do with kids is hard, but I had appreciated what positivity I could get. It switched literally in hospital with him, I was getting told weird shite like that I had 'deep milk ducts' and made to let him go through multiple prick tests to be discharged (they say they were testing his blood sugar, but I was never given the results) and from then on, I got no support beyond my spouse. It was just surprise and questioning.

I'm sick of seeing this, both my dh and I have eczema so it's not a shock our ds has it. Also dh mum bfed him mine didn't you would think if bf did bugger all for it dh wouldn't have had it but there you are

No, I wouldn't think that because evidence of reducing the likelihood of something doesn't mean it entirely erases the chances entirely from happening for every individual. It's all a balance of benefit and risk chances discussed at a population level, not certainty for any one person.

The benefits of breastfeeding for eczema are often overstated - as most things are in science media because sensationalism wins headlines and funding grants in our fucked up systems - but the evidence is more that children who are diagnosed with eczema as infants who are breastfed are, at older ages less likely to still have eczema patches and those who do, are likely to have it less severely compared to others, but it's impossible to say for any individual if that was part of the factors in how their eczema progresses over the years, still having eczema doesn't mean there was no impact.

@Chocaholic9

I also heard that breastfeeding can make you ravenously hungry because you need extra energy to do it. Eating an extra 500 calories per day is obviously not free either.

I agree with this. It's a bit like cycling and walking is free compared to cost of fuel or public transport. Yes but I get really really hungry and that definitely is not free!!

@cadburyegg

I breastfed my 2 children until they were over 1. I don't think it's disingenuous to say that breastfeeding is free but I do think that the benefit of it being so is over-exaggerated and used as a selling point to new parents. Some of the cost is down to choice, I did buy a fair few nursing tops so I could feel comfortable bf in public, sure there will be people who will shout that the 2 shirt method is adequate but it's also not practical if you spend half the summer in a heatwave which is what I experienced with DC2.

I also had to spend money on lactation consultants to cut their tongue ties both times. The NHS wouldn't cover it or even accept there was a problem with DC1 because he gained weight, the fact that he screamed for about 15 hours a day for the first 4 months of his life wasn't important to them. DC2 lost more weight initially and even then they weren't fussed. I wish support had improved since but anecdotal stories from friends tell me otherwise, one in particular, her baby took weeks and weeks to regain her birth weight and even then the support she received was inadequate, the HVs just told her to express more despite the fact she was already pumping around the clock.

If there was adequate support for breastfeeding mums then the cost wouldn't come into it tbh. If 81% of mums initiate breastfeeding at birth yet only 24% are breastfeeding at 6 weeks then that doesn't indicate lack of advice given prenatally. It rather indicates that the support given between birth and 6 weeks (and beyond) is woefully inadequate. My experiences support this, I was told over and over how wonderful breastfeeding is yet when your nipples are shredded and your baby has lost too much weight, you need practical support to make it work not just be told "but you need to carry on because it'll save you money!"

Your last paragraph with bells on!

I just got incensed by seeing a poster in GP surgery suggesting BF is free and it was patronising in tone - got me riled hence this thread.

Yes some women find BF easy- good for them- but many don’t and all this stuff does is make them feel guilty.
Having had one hours sleep in 48 and trying to get your bleeding nipple in your babies mouth at 3am as they cry with hunger isn’t an experience I’d wish on my worst enemy tbh.
To find all this could have been avoided with the simplest adjustments through some practical support does make me very angry tbh.

I breastfed for nearly a year and a half and I'd say it cost no more than £40 altogether. A couple of vest tops and some reusable breast pads. Although it technically wasn't 100% free for me, it's still a tiny fraction of what I'd spent had I FF (I've never FF but I've seen tubs of formula for sale in shops). Everyone's journey is different but for me personally breastfeeding was (very nearly) free and I'm so glad I did it.

Referring to BF in capitalist terms is very much applying language from the patriarchy and conforming to the notion of something only being of any value, if it has a price tag attached to it. I disagree with conforming to the use of that language just to get BF recognised as something of value. I am nurturing my child and it has nothing to do with money where did you get that impression from, the nurturing from feeding my child 'is' the value.

I partially agree - I definitely did spend a significant amount of money to support me to breastfeed:

DC1 - few items of nursing clothing, few tubes of nipple cream (mostly Lansinoh which is really expensive), few boxes of disposable breast pads, few nursing bras, manual breast pump and additional flange, few packs of nipple shields, breastmilk storage bags, nursing cover, few packs of muslins. I EBF for 6 weeks and combi-fed a further 6 weeks. Packed it in as pain was horrendous and none of the support I got made any difference and it was giving me PND.

DC2 - few more nursing bras, couple more items of nursing clothing, few tubes of Lansinoh, 2 packs of reusable breast pads, a few boxes of disposable breast pads, Hakka, Pippetta, few boxes of breastmilk storage bags, few more muslins. He's a little over 3m and I BF apart from 3 or 4 bottles a week which are a mix of breastmilk and formula. It's going much better this time and I can't see myself stopping before 6 months at least.

However, I'd be spending a lot more overall if I was formula feeding, because of the cost of formula. And I know this as I FF my first from 3 months.

It cost me nearly £200 for a tongue tie snip as that’s all I have had to spend for DS2 who is 6m.

@JuicySatsuma85

“Its just statistically more likely the richer and more educated you are the more likely you are to BF successfully for longer periods. Probably because you have the money to get help with these early issues!”

That is just factually incorrect. The countries with the highest breastfeeding rates don’t have lactation consultants or even electricity never mind electric pumps or refrigerators for milk storage! Rwanda has a 90% breastfeeding rate, Malawi is 72%.

Our lifestyle in the West makes breastfeeding difficult. Rwandan women aren’t thinking about how to breastfeed in the car after the 9am baby sensory class or pumping enough milk so the MIL can look after the baby while Mum goes back to work. They also get breastfeeding support from their immediate community around them, not lactation consultants. Now I wouldn’t want to switch places with a Rwandan mother. If they don’t breastfeed their babies they die, because they can’t afford and don’t have easy access to formula so they have to find a way to make it work. Putting that aside though, there’s clearly a reason why poorer countries have high breastfeeding rates and it isn’t because they’re middle class.

A simple google will make it clear that actually I’m totally correct in reference to the western world.

The middle class thing isn’t ridiculous at all- the richer and more educated you are in the UK the more likely you are to BF- it’s a fact! It’s not a pop at anyone! It might be worth examining why this is the case

@TotalRhubarb

So don't. Extra food is a bullshit reason. Eat exactly what you want.

What on earth do you mean, that extra food is a 'bullshit reason'??

Would a 30 or 40% increase on your weekly food bill be a bullshit reason if your finances were really tight? Say, you were on universal credit and constantly having to rob Peter to pay Paul?

Cost of the extra food needed by the mother may not always - or even often - be the clinching factor in why somebody chooses not to bf. But it's not necessarily an insignificant one either.

Ya really don't need that extra food. Women have breast fed baby's successfully throughout the age of man through famines and limited diets. The average western woman would definitely not need this much extra and probably would be better off losing a few pounds for her own health

You are not wrong.
We paid a small fortune for our private lactation consultants. The team was worth every penny. We wouldn’t have succeeded in breastfeeding without them, but they were not cheap. Every woman should have access to the level of support we got as part of standard health care.

I say we because in those first couple of weeks, it was a team effort with DH. He had to help with every single feeding until we got past the hardest part.

I completely agree OP.

I was determined to breastfeed successfully. It just didn’t work out for me. Out of desperation I spent a fortune on a fancy electric double pump, sterilising bags, gel nipple pads, special bottles, books, nipple shields etc but it was like flogging a dead horse. I was unable to breastfeed any of my three for longer than a few weeks (7 at most).

As well as being expensive, it was excruciatingly painful and there was absolutely no support whatsoever. My local support group met once a month! When every feed is agony and you’re struggling to make it through the hours, never mind days, how is a once a month support group any help?

[quote NumberTheory]@Mrbob
EmiliaAirheart

I’ve also heard: breastfeeding is only free if a woman’s time is worth nothing.

That’s a pretty depressing view of your child

It has nothing to do with how anyone views any children. It simply points out, as with so much that women do, that people frequently ignore the labour involved.[/quote]
Monetise everything. Just sick.

@Goldenbear

Referring to BF in capitalist terms is very much applying language from the patriarchy and conforming to the notion of something only being of any value, if it has a price tag attached to it. I disagree with conforming to the use of that language just to get BF recognised as something of value. I am nurturing my child and it has nothing to do with money where did you get that impression from, the nurturing from feeding my child 'is' the value.

Hear hear.

@HogDogKetchup

It cost me nearly £200 for a tongue tie snip as that’s all I have had to spend for DS2 who is 6m.

And to be fair, parents may choose to have a tongue tie divided anyway, even if bottle feeding, as it can cause issues in that department too, as well as later in life sometimes, if left untreated .

Breastfeeding is free, but I agree that the support is woeful. I felt like the message about breastfeeding was massively hammered home throughout pregnancy and the first month after giving birth-it’s all the midwives talk about and they won’t give you any information on bottle feeding. Then from 4/6 weeks old, all anyone asked was, ‘have you stopped breastfeeding yet?!’

I agree.

I found breastfeeding ridiculously easy to establish. I still needed multiple new bras due to significant size increases and them needing to be changed at least daily due to leaking. I also had to change my wardrobe from mainly dresses to trousers/ jeans and tops because I couldn't breastfeed in my normal clothes. Increased laundry due to breast milk getting everywhere (and I absolutely cannot stand the smell).

And if you want to leave baby at all you need to buy bottles and sterilisers anyway.

Ya really don't need that extra food. Women have breast fed baby's successfully throughout the age of man through famines and limited diets. The average western woman would definitely not need this much extra and probably would be better off losing a few pounds for her own health

Sorry, what??? Volhhg you don’t know me from Eve, so how on earth can you say I didn’t need that food?

I did need that food. I was starving.

And I’m not the only one. Though others do experience the opposite.

And I don’t know why you’re referring to famines. In the 21st century I like to take full advantage of modern amenities and progress and just because in the past or elsewhere in the world women are malnourished, it in no way means I should tolerate being permanently hungry and becoming underweight. Why would I self-flagellate in that way? No, I bought and ate the extra food. It did mean bf wasn’t free, though.

Some women need to massively increase their food intake when breastfeeding. Fact.

Are you for real?

Why can’t you accept there is in increased food bill for some women who bf? Are you threatened by that idea? Or just not imaginative enough to grasp that others have different experiences to you?

Our lifestyle in the West makes breastfeeding difficult. Rwandan women aren’t thinking about how to breastfeed in the car after the 9am baby sensory class or pumping enough milk so the MIL can look after the baby while Mum goes back to work. They also get breastfeeding support from their immediate community around them, not lactation consultants

This I was so lucky several times over. My DM had a baby when I was 12, my Aunt also had a baby that year. By the time I had my own I had seen thousands of successful breastfeeds. I had a lovely midwife who helped DS and I persist when he was jaundiced and sleepy on day 2. My DM who breastfed 3 babies stayed with me for 5 nights when DS came home.

I say we because in those first couple of weeks, it was a team effort with DH. He had to help with every single feeding until we got past the hardest part.

I agree with this. I had DH for 3 weeks and my mum for a week (and I still only made it to 5 weeks). I needed DH or my mum to take the baby and settler her after a feed so I could express to build up supply. Sometimes I had to rely on them to take the baby before a feed to calm her because the smell of breast milk made her hungry but I had to faff about with pillows to support her, hand express a tiny bit and attach the nipple shield so DD would hopefully latch. When everyone had gone back to work, when I actually managed to express my supply had dropped to almost nothing and it was an even bigger hurdle to establish it. If we want to improve breastfeeding rates, in addition to having professional support for women I think we need partners to be able to take at least 8 weeks at a decent salary.

It's a fact that BFing needs extra calories. Those calories have to come from somewhere and be paid for somehow.
kellymom.com/nutrition/mothers-diet/mom-calories-fluids/

Yes, some babies survive in famine/war torn countries but they will be the strongest ones anyway who survived birth. The countries that have the highest rates of EBF also have high rates of stunted growth in children.

‘It’s like hell in here’: The struggle to save Afghanistan's starving babies www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59419962

@TotalRhubarb

Ya really don't need that extra food. Women have breast fed baby's successfully throughout the age of man through famines and limited diets. The average western woman would definitely not need this much extra and probably would be better off losing a few pounds for her own health

Sorry, what??? Volhhg you don’t know me from Eve, so how on earth can you say I didn’t need that food?

I did need that food. I was starving.

And I’m not the only one. Though others do experience the opposite.

And I don’t know why you’re referring to famines. In the 21st century I like to take full advantage of modern amenities and progress and just because in the past or elsewhere in the world women are malnourished, it in no way means I should tolerate being permanently hungry and becoming underweight. Why would I self-flagellate in that way? No, I bought and ate the extra food. It did mean bf wasn’t free, though.

Some women need to massively increase their food intake when breastfeeding. Fact.

Are you for real?

Why can’t you accept there is in increased food bill for some women who bf? Are you threatened by that idea? Or just not imaginative enough to grasp that others have different experiences to you?

All they said was you don't need loads of extra food, calm down. Take your own advice and not dismiss pp, because not everyone is starving either.

It's like people want to feed their child with no expense or minor inconvenience whatsoever which is impossible with either method, and at any age.

I and others would rather buy extra food (to make breastmilk) than formula given the choice.

Breastfeeding isn't entirely free, decent supportive nursing bras are expensive and then there's breast pads etc however personally I didnt express or use any other equipment so for me it was a lot cheaper than formula.