To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

I really don’t understand objective to a hybrid working arrangement.

And in your case 2 days a month is perfectly reasonable.

Surely the majority of people who worked form home before Covid still had to go to the occasional meeting or conference or training course?

People seem to think remote working is 100% ata gone and never being asked to leave the house and see another person ever again.

@ABitBesottedWithMyDog

YABU (and it doesn't affect me, I'm freelance and work from home when I want).

If the work can be done from home, why for the love of God insist that people spend hours commuting just to share office space with germ-riddled anti-vaxx rednecks/ perpetual eaters whose crisps packet antics cause interference on your headset/ pinstripe-suited loudmouthed knobheads boring on about themselves and their awful lives?

I work better alone with my potplants, and I know I'm not alone!

You're right, I much prefer working from home too. Some people prefer it and adapt well to it, and companies should give us the right to continue, just the same as allowing those who want to return to do so.

BUT you work for the company and it is their policies you have to follow. If you didn't get a contract upgrade, then that's your problem as far as I'm concerned. Can't blame anyone for it. I am hoping my company will allow us to wfh permanently or come in if we want to, which I don't. But as there are no contract changes, I'm not moving yet. And if if doesn't swing the way I want, I may just leave. Wfh benefits me more, and I can find other companies to work for. I'll make that clear of course beforehand, but I'll leave if it won't be met. I'm dispensable to them, the company is equally dispensable to me.

@MarshaBradyo

On the why would you move house I remember a few threads where people were adamant it was a permanent change

There were some of us saying maybe not

Oh yes I remember them, any suggestions that this may not be a permanent arrangement was loudly (and often aggressively) rebutted.

Honestly they are being ridiculous! Nobody ever said this was a permanent situation. I feel not sympathy as they are very unreasonable. However, I understand people not wanting to work in offices but there is a choice of getting a job that do not required working in offices.

i so agree , the bottom line is they have got all nice and cosy wfh and now any hint of a change and they are up in arms , there was a thread on this last week , only 3 days a week going in and she wants to resign as its going to have such a big impact on her family life , i mean seriously what on earth did these people do then before covid and they had to go in 5 days a week ?

theres seems to be lots of talk about how they can just leave their jobs and get full time wfh and its all theirs for the picking , but from what im seeing thats not so now , offices are wanting their employees back in at least for a little bit of the week and i think its not unreasonable of them to

@dorkfink

they should be lucky they still have a job.

I hate this attitude, it's so regressive. Where does it come from? Companies also saved millions having staff wfh.

Not necessarily. If you are in the middle of a 10 year office lease you are still paying for the office so the government decision to make people wfh where they can has not necessarily saved businesses money.

We've had the same. People have moved away, said they'd make arrangements if they needed to come in occasionally, and now they actually might have to do that they are finding it too hard. I think most of them will be looking for new roles (esp as I work for a national organization which pays the same anywhere in the country)

Yep it's just plain stupid. I am in the very fortunate position that when we moved to WFH it worked so well that the company decided to amend contracts to Remote Worker to make it a permanent change.

While I get you, and overall think yanbu, I do find Mumsnet overly deferential to workplaces. Employees have a voice. Good employees who know their stuff aren't instantly replaceable. If people find a workplace requirement disagreeable and pointless why shouldn't they make that known? Up to the company whether they decide to take the hit on morale/retention and insist or backtrack isn't it? You don't always have to be a people pleaser.

It’s driving us mad too. YANBU!

Can’t believe how entitled some people are.

I'm in London (only stayed because it wasnt certain that wfh will be full time and also my support network is in London) and work has said a hybrid approach - 2 days a week. WFH has changed my life completely, I am not exhausted after work (I am disabled and going into the office is so physically exhausting). I have enough energy to cook and play with DC and even go fo a walk after work - stuff I couldnt do before. DC get home an hour earlier too. I am lookinig for a full time remote role now and willing to even lose half my current salary in exchange for full time WFH.

As much as people say bad things about WFH or people wanting it fiull time being lazy I think this has really changed the lives of so many disabled people not being limited by their pain to have to commute or go into the office where even reasonable accommodations still made the job physically taxing for a lot of people. A lot of friends in similar positions have said they have had a chance to contribute again and use their skills in a meaningful way by getting new jobs not limited by 'presenteism' where they ordinarily would not have applied because commiting to coming in 5 days a week. So many friends were previously underemployed because of their disability and now are in great jobs.

I hope employers consider that when moving to hybrid or full time in the office work - I know a lot of my friends are disappointed at the prospect of being underemployed or unemployed again.

I had a call from a recruiter yesterday and despite my profile and niche specialisation his best offer was 5 days int he office for the next 6 months and then possibly 1 day a week WFH after that. I don't know if he is out of touch or I am but there is nothing that can convince me to go full time in the office again.

Your employer sounds very reasonable. 2 days a month is hardly onerous. Long lead in time to make arrangements is also very generous.
I’m wfh and employer made clear it’s not guaranteed permanent.

@cushioncovers

Lots of people have worked from home the entire time and done it really well, so it is a bit odd that suddenly you have to go back into the office.

IMO Employers want their employees where they can see them and know what they're up to. It's a control thing.

well yes it is a control thing as your employer pays your wage in order that you do your job and can see you doing your job , im in retail and im afraid its the same way dear , my manager likes to see me actually doing shit and not propped up on a shelf having a 40 min conversation with one of my buddies who works theres as well , im not sure how you seem to paint employers wanting to see their employees working as controlling in a negative light .

all wfh employees bang on about how much more productive they are and yet of course they will say that to fit their agenda , it does not mean they are though ,

I'd be very happy to step into the shoes of someone who can't be arsed to schlep to the office a couple of days a week. Us public facing staff who haven't been thrown under the bus might have the last laugh after all.

@SirChenjins - absolutely. I have no idea but when does the custom and practice of the last two years become a legal precedent? Can it?

Yanbu.

Due to my role people have always been hybrid but we've recently been told that we need to get back to full time office over the he next few weeks (to allow people to make arrangements) and the massive uproar it has caused is unbelievable. Mainly people not wanting to leave their dogs ...

Many may wfh successfully but it’s really hard for new starters to be trained and get a feel for the organisation, build relationships with colleagues (work rather than affair type relationships). The company needs to consider the bigger picture and the future development of the organisation.

My DCs school are still unable to offer the full wraparound they did pre-pandemic, meaning there are no available childminders in the area either. DH and I juggle so we can take turns wfh but basically can't both go to office on same day 'because of childcare', school are hoping to open longer wraparound back up after Easter but at the moment if I were a single parent I'd really struggle to go back to office.

@chaosrabbitland I don't think you understand. It extremely easy to track productivity, regardless of where someone works.

Your job in retail doesn't really compare.

Oh God. They should get real and give up their jobs and let other people have them who aren't going to fanny around with their dogs, which they shouldn't have got if they couldn't guarantee 100% that they could look after them.

@BitterTits

I'd be very happy to step into the shoes of someone who can't be arsed to schlep to the office a couple of days a week. Us public facing staff who haven't been thrown under the bus might have the last laugh after all.

I would say go for it then. No point not applying for these jobs, if that's what you want to do.

WFH will be good for people but not so good when they loose their London Weighting as they will not actually be working in London

Then watch / listen to the moans 😳

@HalfCakeHalfBiscuit

All the moaners in my place went quiet when I said I'd take away their London allowance

I've been wondering about that. How does a London allowance work for remote workers? (genuine question)

One of our local dog rescue places is full at the moment because lots of people have gone back to work.

I have a friend who WFH who never planned to go back in, but issues with new starters has meant everyone has to go back in at least one day a week.