To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

@Prinzy

It's a shame the company's desire to work in the office trump's the individual's life choices, just proves were all too submissive to the will of the employer. WFH proves an office isn't needed to function

I’m an individual who has a desire to work in an office. I enjoy the separation of work life and home life. I’m not the only one.

My employer pays me my wage for the results I produce for the company, not for producing them in a specific location. It is up to me to choose to work in the place where I produce the best results. A workplace can't decide that for me.

What a fucking ludicrous comment. Of course your workplace can decide that for you.

It's a shame some people's desire to work on their own, at home trumps other people's desire to work together, as part of a team, in an office.

@Intheshit1

I think it’s very silly of company’s to insist office based. For example, I saw a job recently I liked and would have been an amazing fit for.

It’s in slough, 2 hours away. I don’t want that commute and I also don’t want to live there. I have kids that need picking up at 6pm from after school club. I can’t be more than 20-30 mins away,

Insisting on working in office severely restricts your pool of decent applicants.

Again, this is idiotic. You either relocate for the job you want or you compromise on your career for the sake of your home life. You really can't have it all ways.

I work in the office btw, but if the job can be done from home and the person wants to they should be allowed to make that choice there are pro's and con's for both. There are also outbreaks of covid in most areas of my workplace so I can't force somebody in o the office during a pandemic iftjey choose not to

Edit

Companies can but shouldn't

Or companies can take a broader, more proactive view and utilise the technology available to them for roles whenever possible and feasible thus enabling them to recruit the best candidate - who may live in another part of the country. This idea that that everyone has to up sticks and move or endure ridiculously long commutes at the expense of a work life balance so that they can physically be in an office five days a week will gradually become a very old fashioned way of working for many roles - the last two years has kick started a change that I’m sure will continue.

"My employer pays me my wage for the results I produce for the company, not for producing them in a specific location. It is up to me to choose to work in the place where I produce the best results. A workplace can't decide that for me."

Yes, they can. Just like you can decide to hand in your notice if you don't like it.

Jesus Christ. I think some people on here would be better off just working for themselves. The level of entitlement is staggering.

I do think this remote working bubble is likely to burst for most at some stage so I'd be wary of burning any bridges (unless you're in IT, and then you can probably do what you want.)

@ufucoffee

"My employer pays me my wage for the results I produce for the company, not for producing them in a specific location. It is up to me to choose to work in the place where I produce the best results. A workplace can't decide that for me."

Yes, they can. Just like you can decide to hand in your notice if you don't like it.

Please explain how my employer can decide where I work best? It’s my personal experience, not something that can be decided by an external party.

Thankfully my employer treats employees like adults, and allows people to make their own decisions on what works for them.

@Justkeeppedaling

It's a shame some people's desire to work on their own, at home trumps other people's desire to work together, as part of a team, in an office.

Yes I agree. Besides I would question the mental health aspect of WFH for long periods of time with little or no contact with other coworkers, it must be very isolating. Personally I believe in team working as coworkers can gain from my experience and I can draw on their's so we get the best results overall.

Yes I agree. Besides I would question the mental health aspect of WFH for long periods of time with little or no contact with other coworkers, it must be very isolating.
Personally I believe in team working as coworkers can gain from my experience and I can draw on their's so we get the best results overall.

This is quite the sweeping statement and one I hear over and over from my boss (who is clearly jealous that her sister remote works all week and she can't as it isn't possible in our job).

It is true that some people might struggle with their mental health as a result of WFH for long periods of time, and may also find this isolating. However, it is equally true to say that some people have thrived in an environment away from distractions and have maintained healthy relationships with their colleagues, increased productivity whilst also enjoying the extra time with their family that the loss of commuting time has gifted them. These people have formed new relationships and mentored new staff within their job and are all around happier people.

I just don't think the argument of "it's better for your mental health" is universally true, or even true for the majority.

The argument that if the company wants you in, you go in or move jobs is a legitimate one though. Those that moved house and now complain have themselves to blame and I have zero sympathies with them. If my DH returned to the office, our dog would miss him, but we had the dog pre-covid and she was happy to sleep all day after her morning walk before her after-work walk. I would also hate having to pay the extra hour of childcare a day, but we could do it.

So many people did this. But I've also known people buy a new car on the promise but not the realisation of a pay rise. It's like they think by doing so it has to happen.

They are all in for a big shock. We work in delivering results so we can work anywhere but I miss going in once a week.

fetchacloth
Yes I agree. Besides I would question the mental health aspect of WFH for long periods of time with little or no contact with other coworkers, it must be very isolating.
Personally I believe in team working as coworkers can gain from my experience and I can draw on their's so we get the best results overall.

My mental health has always been fragile but since working form home it has massively improved. I also have not been out on sick leave since working from home.

People have always been clueless. I had a steady stream of clowns come into see me to ask for a pay rise “because I’m getting a mortgage” or “I’m buying a car”. If pay were linked to lifestyle then everyone would be out buying a yacht!

@DottyHarmer

Curious if you work in a company where everyone earns the same for the same work or if there are payscales in operation. I know people in office-based roles where pay is linked to previous performance and therefore everyone is on a different amount within the (huge) office. Then someone joins the company, with great negotiation skills, manages to start higher up than 70% of the office. Then someone finds out and clumsily asks for a pay rise as they feel undervalued. Why some people think their best negotiation position would be "need" rather than "deserve on merit alone", is a mystery.

[quote kittymamma]@DottyHarmer

Curious if you work in a company where everyone earns the same for the same work or if there are payscales in operation. I know people in office-based roles where pay is linked to previous performance and therefore everyone is on a different amount within the (huge) office. Then someone joins the company, with great negotiation skills, manages to start higher up than 70% of the office. Then someone finds out and clumsily asks for a pay rise as they feel undervalued. Why some people think their best negotiation position would be "need" rather than "deserve on merit alone", is a mystery.[/quote]
It’s not really. People are very reluctant to ask for money because they think they’re worth it. They are offering up a rationale to help them ask for more. It’s human nature.

@Theblacksheepandme

fetchacloth *Yes I agree. Besides I would question the mental health aspect of WFH for long periods of time with little or no contact with other coworkers, it must be very isolating. Personally I believe in team working as coworkers can gain from my experience and I can draw on their's so we get the best results overall.*

My mental health has always been fragile but since working form home it has massively improved. I also have not been out on sick leave since working from home.

Agree. I have realised just how much being in the office was battering my sensory issues. I’ve had no sick leave now since January 2020.

@whirlycarly

Jesus Christ. I think some people on here would be better off just working for themselves. The level of entitlement is staggering.

I do think this remote working bubble is likely to burst for most at some stage so I'd be wary of burning any bridges (unless you're in IT, and then you can probably do what you want.)

@whirlycarly - totally agree with you. I think unless some of these individuals are intending to become self-employed (or unemployed) they are going to be in for a massive shock in months to come. More so if we have a recession, which is likely with increased energy costs and tax rises. Hope I'm wrong but we'll wait and see.

My employer was initially clear that wfh was temporary, it was a big change in culture, then the discussion moved towards a hybrid model, we've been able to go into the office if we want to for a while but it's fairly pointless because there's no one there, the benefit of being in the office would be to see people. Eventually we're expecting to move to everyone being expected to be in some of the time, how much is still to be determined. The narrative has definitely developed but how anyone with an office based contract could feel comfortable to move far away, without asking for a change in terms and conditions, I don't know, I think some people might move a bit further away once it's established how often we need to be in the office, a longer commute once a fortnight, for example, is probably worth it, unless you've literally moved several hours away, I'm talking about moving from the city where our office is to one of the smaller towns on the outskirts or into the countryside.

Always thought WFH was a temporary measure - the pandemic was never going to last forever. Those that moved and made different life choices - all well and good but short sighted for when things revert back

@MabelsApron

I love WFH. I have a disability and the peace and quiet and not starting the day full of anxiety from my commute is wonderful. I’ve been told that my productivity is better than pre-pandemic so I’m happy that both me and my employer are getting something out of it.

My problem is that I work in a team where parents are all working around the school run. I log on at 8am or 8.30am and there’s nobody there so I do the 9am/9.30am meetings. I then tackle anything urgent arising and my colleagues arrive around 9.30 or 10. They then vanish again at 2.45 or so so I’m up for the 2.30/3/3.30 meetings. They turn back up at 3.30 or so and because they’re logging off at 5 there’s no time really to help with anything urgent.

They say that they make their hours up after 7, but I rarely see any evidence that anyone has done anything after I log off (and sometimes I’ve been logged on until then and never seen anyone else), and also it’s not very helpful as urgent stuff is urgent for a reason and tends to happen during the day. I don’t need help at 7pm, I need it during the day.

I did a 8.30-6.45 day today to get everything sorted on something urgent, and that’s not rare.

They’re all justifying it on the basis of feminism and womens rights and it being better for work/life balance and stuff but like… I’m also a woman, with a need for that balance?

I know everyone will say that this is a management issue and I need to just log off but I work in a role where public emergencies happen and people would be affected if I did, which is very hard for me to handle.

That sounds very tough and quite unfair. Have you raised this with your line manager?

YABU.

Unless WFH has been detrimental in some way, if it's working, leave it as it is. For some (like people with disabilities) WFH has been life changing.

The only massive shock coming is people who have made changes will not sell up and come back to the office because other people are lonely or need some company. People will make a decision that's best for their own circumstances.
They'll just find employment somewhere else-which is what we're working on right now. We have a choice between a 4 hr daily commute or 10 mins.
Employers might find people being more receptive to listening by being flexible and less authoritarian. This pandemic has stretched over 2 yrs, hardly a short time period, people had to make decisions.
Balling and cat-calling employees or colleagues is hardly going to make them want to come rushing back.

In general, business is in for a choppy ride, with rising costs, employee rebellion, the global marketplace has changed.

1 day a fortnight is nothing, they should be happy - many employers are asking for 2/3 days a week! I know someone who was almost exclusively WFH pre-pandemic for years who is now being asked to go in 2/3 days with everyone else as employer wants to get normality back, my friend is feeling really stressed about it. My DP is 1/2 days and stays in a hotel near office. Works well, he can focus work, we have a much nicer standard of living than we would in London.