To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

Friend is doing this... just assuming WFH will be permanent. I keep my lips sealed.

I had a F2F meeting this week -- was great! sometimes so much more productive

I think people were caught up in the 'this will change the society works forever' narrative, and seemed to take this as gospel without any consideration of what their own workplaces were saying.

It's very naive and frankly people were utterly stupid to make big moves without having a new contract/contract amendment in their hands.

We've had similar arguments, and the answer is 'not our problem, you are contracted to work in the office and we told you it wouldn't be forever so we expect back you in the office on x date'

I'd just like to remind everyone that the ability to work from home is a very privileged position. Millions of people still do jobs that can't be done from home.

WFH is one thing but making huge moves and ditching childcare arrangements presuming it’s going to be the norm is another. All good and fine if you are confident of getting another fully WFH role at similar levels of pay should a hybrid model not suit or be prepared to do the train/hotel arrangement along with the appropriate expense involved. I think many did it because it meant they could actually buy in a cheaper area which is fine but they have to be prepared to work round this if employer wants it or find something else. Employers arent being unreasonable, unless they stated the job would now be 100% WFH and contracted accordingly

I do think employers should try to be understanding, and realise that the world has changed for a lot of people.

E.g. a lot of public transport links have cut their timetables, and a commute that was perfectly doable when buses were every hour might be much less so now they are every 2 hours, or stop at 5pm.

My after school club has shut down, and a lot of childminders in the area have found other jobs because the demand hasn't been there. Similar with dog walkers. These things will not suddenly reappear when people need them.

A lot of examples given are of people taking the piss. But there are other cases where a bit of flexibility while things ramp up again would be fair, I think.

The company I work for on any new vacancies explicitly state the location of the post and if the post qualifies for home working the successful candidate must be available to work on site at least 2 days a week. There is also something in our policy that staff working from home must do so from within the UK. How this can be policed I don’t know as I’m aware of people working from holiday homes etc.

It's been a permanent change in my company -- all but a few key personnel are free to choose what suits them best. I have two direct reports working entirely remotely and one working from the office. I work a hybrid schedule.

I also know of companies who have let their real estate go and have definitely made the switch permanent. DH works for one; he'd prefer a hybrid schedule but the offices closed last year and they decentralised the organisation. Their new hires are from all over the country, so no one is being recruited with the expectation of needing to go in.

Yanbu.

I can see people giving up childcare if, say, their kids are 10 and don't need to be supervised in the house, but aren't old enough to get themselves home, let themselves in and be hone alone. But what you were planning on doing if/when you are due back should gave always been a consideration.

People who have moved without having it confirmed are just ridiculous imo.

YANBU. However, they can submit a flexible working request and it would be hard for an employer to refuse unless there has been a performance issue. Also, the law is changing and may have changed already so FW is a given and the employer has to make a case to refuse it which they are unlikely to have after 2 years.

YABU (and it doesn't affect me, I'm freelance and work from home when I want).

If the work can be done from home, why for the love of God insist that people spend hours commuting just to share office space with germ-riddled anti-vaxx rednecks/ perpetual eaters whose crisps packet antics cause interference on your headset/ pinstripe-suited loudmouthed knobheads boring on about themselves and their awful lives?

I work better alone with my potplants, and I know I'm not alone!

I'm very glad that we were never able to work remotely. We actually stopped using one of our main wholesalers last year as their entire admin team were working from home. Between broken mobile signals on every phone call, losing access to the system and errors being made right left and centre but no one taking responsibility....... we gave up.

There's absolutely no consideration for the end users of these businesses, who at the end of the day is why the business exists. It's all me me me.

YANBU as it's very silly of them, but I do think a lot of people are waking up to the realisation there's a way to have a better work/life balance and having experienced the 'alternative' are understandably reluctant to go back. Obviously silly to make lifestyle changes based on a temp situation, but I imagine for some people it's been a wake-up call into how else their life could be.

WFH is one thing but making huge moves and ditching childcare arrangements presuming it’s going to be the norm is another.

Did everyone ditch childcare though? I have colleagues who still don't have wrap around care offered by the school due to covid.

Lots of people have worked from home the entire time and done it really well, so it is a bit odd that suddenly you have to go back into the office.

We got a dog in lockdown and have always been and are prepared to pay for doggy day care.

I moving miles away is utter madness and isn't easily resolved. It's not a problem you can just chuck money at

Dh has colleagues who moved 4-5 hours away based on wfh. His organisation always said it wasn’t permanent although they hoped to keep some level of flexibility/hybrid wfh and office based. We have a dog (bought puppy in 2020) but dh office means he can get home at lunch and dc get in from school at 3pm plus I do some wfh. Puppy now 18 months old and fine when left for a few hours. We’ve deliberately got him used to this as dh could end up in the office more. We’re baffled by the people who made massive life changes without any thought about the pandemic being over at some point. You can’t plan or foresee everything but this is bonkers.

Where I work working from home works well, because we all knew our job role inside out. The management say we are more productive from home, but they want us back.
They have been very open that the reason is we won't work for them forever so they need us to train our replacements, pass on our skills. I learnt from my predecessor. It makes sense. So op yanbu

@dorkfink we ditched childcare - cm resigned and after school club was full but dh working from home and dc being aged 8 and 11 in 2020 meant it was okay ish. Now dc are 13 and 10 (almost 14 and 11) so no childcare needed. Even if dh returned to the office full time, dc could let themselves in and not need childcare. I guess the timings worked for us.

I can't believe anyone would be that stupid to go to the effort and expense of moving house (and thereby taking them away from a reasonable commute) based on a temporary working arrangement that wasn't contractually agreed?! I mean.... really?!

I have colleagues who still don't have wrap around care offered by the school due to covid.

Yeah, I mean, we kept our breakfast club/afterschool on the whole time but at the moment, they can't offer breakfast club due to staff shortages so I have to do the school run. Luckily, I don't need to be back in the office yet, but people are having these kinds of issues where services just aren't as available because there is still a high rate of infection. I think it's possible to be too rigid and dismissive about people's circumstances.

I have no sympathy for people who moved house, bought a dog or made any other big life decisions based on a temporary pandemic situation. Ridiculous thing to do.

why for the love of God insist that people spend hours commuting just to share office space with germ-riddled anti-vaxx rednecks/ perpetual eaters whose crisps packet antics cause interference on your headset/ pinstripe-suited loudmouthed knobheads boring on about themselves and their awful lives

Well, aren't you delightful.

What about travelling to share office space with people who don't have the space to work at home long term, or who live alone and who really suffered with the isolation during lockdown and who really need to get out of the house and back to face to face working for the sake of their mental health. No-one seems to give a shit about them.

@ ABitBesottedWithMyDog

Because some people don’t want to spend all their time at home. I would hate to work from home permanently.

Lots of people have worked from home the entire time and done it really well, so it is a bit odd that suddenly you have to go back into the office.

IMO Employers want their employees where they can see them and know what they're up to. It's a control thing.

A friend of mine is HR for a major US organisation and this has been an issue for them -- especially as there are places in the US where her organisation is not authorised to conduct business, and there are employees that moved there without telling anyone.

I'm an American and this has happened to us for some employees. It's not that you need the authorization to do business in that state, it's that you need to register as an employer so that state income taxes can be withheld and paid to the state tax authority. Payroll processing companies do this routinely, but there is a cost and some time involved. Most states make it fairly straightforward because they love getting new tax revenue.

With costs increasing so much I’m surprised it’s seen as economically viable for a business to keep a full sized office just for staff to go in once a fortnight. Seems like an ideal opportunity to make savings either by letting out part of the building or selling downsizing to smaller premises