To think it’s daft to make big life decisions based on WFH without checking it’s permanent?

[GoldenOmber]

My work used to be office-based. We’ve all been WFH since March 2020 because of government rules (not in England).

This week the government lifted that rule, and later that day our employers told us what the plans were to start bringing us back. This is pretty flexible - not starting for a month or two yet, will still allow a lot of WFH for people who want it (like 9 days a fortnight with one in the office). Most people are ok with this. Some people really aren’t.

Now we are having drama over email with a small but vocal group saying how angry/upset they are, because they have made big changes based around getting to WFH and it will now be difficult for them to go back at all. Even 1 day a fortnight starting in April. Changes like moving house far away from office; getting a dog and not wanting to leave the dog alone; selling car and not wanting to get public transport b/c germs (not just covid, all germs).

Work have ALWAYS said WFH was temporary though! I have some sympathy for how long it’s going to take you to commute from your new house in the middle of nowhere, but SURELY you’d factor that in when you bought it?

YABU - no, after 2 years of WFH working fairly well it was reasonable to expect it to continue without checking.

YANBU - yes, they should obviously have checked.

Ha! This is an issue currently kicking off where I work too.
HR are backtracking from the original "live and work from anywhere you like" message to one where we should think about being in the office a couple of days a week at least, and be available for F2F team meetings etc.

People are v angry because "I've bought a puppy" or "I've got rid of the childminder" and so on.

I'm enjoying the comments at the bottom of the HR statement on the intranet 😀

Yes, you absolutely cannot just fuck off to a country other than the one you're legally employed in and work from there. The tax implications are horrendous. In the US you may not even be able to move states if your company doesn't have a presence in the state you moved to. That one has caused my company a lot of headaches.

Selfishly I'm hoping this means we can finally sell our house in London that no one wanted last year (because people were busy moving to Cornwall) to someone having to come back sharpish.

YANBU people don't seem to realise the businesses are allowed to make changes to their benefit at any time. Even if permanent was promised, that can be rescinded with a restructure/change to contractual terms.

My company goes through peaks and troughs with WFH (even pre-pandemic). In our last major restructure 4 years ago they removed all remote working jobs. Everyone had to be present in the office for at least 50% of their working week.

People who lived too far to commute within an hour were offered redundancy or the option to pay for their own travel to the nearest office.

We now find ourselves in a hybrid choice way of working, you only need to attend an office once a month if customer facing and whenever you fancy if not. But crucially nobody has had a contractual change to location so we're all still aligned to a local office.

Some have taken the plunge and moved to their dream location and have factored in occasional travel to their budget. I'd be surprised if anyone in my company trusts that the office not being compulsory is set in stone after previous treatment. Frankly people who do are either naive or entitled.

I'm guessing you are in Ireland like myself, yesterday I listened to a guy complaining on a radio programme that he and his family moved from Dublin to Donegal (where he is originally from) when his public service job started wfh and now he is expected to return to the office, he's fuming and when asked if it was enough to make him resign and look for another job he replied only if he could get another public service job. I am self employed so maybe I don't quite get the mindset that allows people decide to moved large distances, sell/buy houses, get pets, changed children's schools etc all based on decisions made urgently by employers during a pandemic, of course those decisions were going to be reviewed and altered.

@Sunsetsupernova

I have a friend who is American and was allowed by her company to travel back home for several weeks during lockdowns to work from there with slightly different hours than she normally did. She had to ask and get permission every time.

Now they’ve said that for tax reasons they can’t have people working from abroad. My friend thinks this is absolutely outrageous and claims she is being unfairly disadvantaged over people from the U.K. who can easily travel to see their family on the weekends whereas she now has to use her annual leave allowance

Her company are right tax implications of overseas working are very complicated they were stupid to let her do it in the first place But shes having a laugh thinking its unreasonable for her to take leave in those circumstances. She needs to own her choices and her choice to move countries and all that that brings

I'm surprised it's taken this long for it to be a problem. A lot of places started going back last summer.

Too bloody right, OP. And you know what's really pissed me off about the whole thing is the number of people on here who've been so sure of themselves and speaking a bit too arrogantly about how working from home is the future and how those of us staying in London are so behind the times etc. A lot of these people are going to get a rude awakening.

I've heard about a few small and medium companies who've given up their office altogether and everyone has become permanently work from home - however, they are still meeting up in person once a week or fortnight, at a hired meeting room or wherever, so the employees still need to be able to get there.

And even if some people really have been promised permanent WFH, they're going to have problems next time they look for a new job. Considering that in the past I've been turned down for jobs on the basis that I lived in zone 4 which was "too far away", I very much doubt if many London-based businesses are going to employ people living in Northern Scotland.

so sure of themselves and speaking a bit too arrogantly about how working from home is the future and how those of us staying in London are so behind the times etc.

But remote working was a thing pre covid & it certainly has increased & will stay hybrid for most companies so I don't honk the future is less remote working.

think not honk! 😆

Agree with @PleasantBirthday - 2 years could be the total length of time you’ve done your job and so you’re not ‘going back’ to the office if you’ve never worked there…

I’ve worked in my current job for 3 years. Almost 2 of those have been from home. I’ve been to the office for fewer than 10 days in the last 2 years! My workplace has predominantly been my home, not the office, and so to talk about ‘going back’ as though it’s the norm - well, it isn’t the norm for me!

I wouldn’t have made major life changes without a change in contract to permanent WFH but employers can’t have it both ways either. They were more than happy to make people give up their living space/bedroom/kids’ bedrooms in order to keep their jobs, making homes offices and all the hassle that comes with it. Not they’re clicking their fingers and wanting people to shift back when the workers have gone native. Not an easy transition for anyone but it’s good, ultimately, that the so-called norm has been disrupted and employers are that little bit less powerful.

Cofifeefee
I'm also hearing a lot of chat from people that say they have proven they can do the job from home. Yes, you may have but if company policy is everyone will attend the office 3 days a week, why do you think that you will be exempt from that policy?

I think the policy needs to be reviewed then. I am one of those people that say that I have proven my output and performance has not changed. Don't get me wrong as I have previously said that I have no problem attending the office a day a week but see no reason why it should be more.

I very much doubt if many London-based businesses are going to employ people living in Northern Scotland.

See I think a huge benefit of remote working is the reverse brain drain, rather than everyone flocking to cities. More FTBs left London than ever before to buy last yr but a large part of this will be affordability.

Remember we have a skills shortage in certain areas & a coming shift in population demographics so certain employees are going to have to offer more flexibility (if that's what workers want) to attract workers.

they should be lucky they still have a job.

I hate this attitude, it's so regressive. Where does it come from? Companies also saved millions having staff wfh.

Not an easy transition for anyone but it’s good, ultimately, that the so-called norm has been disrupted and employers are that little bit less powerful.

absolutely

I think they're posturing as steadfastly as they can in the hope that their employer might cave. It's a negotiating tactic.

Remains to be seen how successful it will be. There are so many vested interests in getting people back into offices.

I WFH 40% before covid, currently on 100% but my employer does regular updates. It seems like the new plan will be a permanent 50% from home, but we haven't been given the full details on how this will work.

The difficulty is that it has become the new normal in lots of places. My husband’s office were back in as soon as possible and it feels like they ripped off the plaster a long time ago. If you’ve been somewhere where you’ve exclusively worked from home for nearly 2 years that does change how you perceive things.

I'm a huge supporter of WFH where people want it, am fighting hard with my business partners to allow people to work almost entirely remotely if they want post-restrictions (or any combination of in office/WFH that suits them), and it's absolutely changed our business for the better.

BUT.

Currently we're back to 1/2 days a week in the office.

If someone had just decided to move 100 miles away and complained it wasn't fair, I'd have been pissed off.

It's not about the WFH specifically, it's the assuming - I'd feel the same if they assumed they could bring their dog to the office, or assumed they could work 4pm - midnight instead of 9-5, or anything else.

If they'd said, "look, my circumstances have changed and I want to move but I want to keep my job, can we make it work even if we go back to hybrid working?", I'd have fought tooth and nail to make that work for them.

But assuming it'd be fine is ridiculous and people kicking off they now have to go back (unless their work deliberately implied it'd be permanent) have played shit games and won shit prizes.

I think employers should be flexible where they without it impacting business need (presenteeism has always been ridiculous). But I think anyone who upped and moved house 3 hours from work etc was mad!

Pret are certainly buying into it, they are planning to open 100 plus outlets in regional/suburban markets.

I know a few people moving back to the cities they left because a) the countryside wasn’t what they expected or b) the commutes on packed trains aren’t ideal.

While WFH works great for the employee, you do miss the human touch and we’ve been at our most innovative when in groups in the office. That’s clearly not needed for every job but what about training others/supporting colleagues/sharing cultural experiences? It’s going to be a poor world if people don’t want to meet.

‘Custom and practice’ is used by employers to get employees to do things when it suits them…it’s quite nice to see those employees digging their heels in and saying ‘no, I’ve worked very effectively at home for two years, my productivity has increased, and unless you can show me good reason why I have to be in x physical location as opposed to y physical location to do my job to the same level then I’ll continue to wfh’.

That being said, one day a week in the office (or even 2 or 3 days) is not unreasonable imo.

It’s certainly something that I would take into account when considering someone for promotion - anyone with such poor judgement to make a life altering decision without checking the terms of their contract would be off the list

On the why would you move house I remember a few threads where people were adamant it was a permanent change

There were some of us saying maybe not