I don’t think asking mn if something you did / said was racist should be allowed

[Gardensparrows]

They may or may not be genuine but the comments they prompt are awful.

The thread has been taken down but in 2022 I have reported three people for laughing at the word ‘chink’ and it is completely unacceptable.

I do think MN should make more posters aware that if they breach the Equalities Act or post comments that could be perceived as hate incidents then MN could release their details to any authority that asks for it

Is that within MN’s remit or realistically something they’re going to fund the policing of? I’m not entirely sure whether they’re obliged to do much more than not host overt discussions which does nothing for the subtleties which are prevalent.

Tbh I’m not just coming at this from the angle of racism, imho you can have anonymity/name changing or credibility. I’m not convinced it’s possible to have both. A Twitter style tick as brought up by a previous poster might work but what would be the criteria and would it only encompass posters who can verify qualifications or a more subjective ‘good egg’ posting history.? It’s been very unpopular when suggested before and I completely understand the reasonings but with that anonymity comes the price of lost credibility.

A friendly enquiry is not “quizzing” someone, OP.
My patients were not “unwell” they were having elective surgery or in some cases babies! Nor were my colleagues or taxi drivers unwell.
And someone who is offended or stressed by a question wouldn’t enthusiastically launch into a long conversation about their home country - they’d give a short reluctant answer and not happily prolong the chat until I had to stop them to induce their anaesthesia.

As a person of colour I am often amazed by these threads, and how low the bar on racial awareness is set within the UK. My workplace recently mandated a racial awareness course for all staff. Ok, I was a bit dubious, but I was horrified to find that the course found it necessary to reiterate that the N and P words should not be used, and one of the questions from a Manager was how should be handle it when people "played the race card"? In some areas we have a long way to go.

BAME shouldn't be used anymore, the catch-all term for non-white people is POCs, short for person(s) of colour.

I think it's fine for people to ask whether their behaviour or language was appropriate or not on AIBU, because a) that's the point of this section, and b) people learn from listening to others.

As long as people aren't racially abusing other posters, a robust discussion is fine.

Morning "BAME shouldn't be used anymore, the catch-all term for non-white people is POCs, short for person(s) of colour"

I hate all these terms. They're trying to separate white and non white so I'd honestly rather be called non white.

I am one person. I can only speak for me but all I want is for people to just not make a big deal of stuff when it's not relevant. It's such a massive complicated issue. I am probably old fashioned but I think polite chit chat, if it's necessary, shouldn't include stuff that is obviously problematic. Race, religion, politics....I think it's really easy to avoid these things and/or take your cue from the person you're talking to.

@Babdoc My parents are surgeons, and have recounted horror stories about the ‘well meaning’ and ‘curious’ questions/conversations that colleagues would seek to have with them. People like you, who no doubt thought they were delighted to engage. They weren’t delighted. THEY HAD NO FUCKING CHOICE. Even now, Black people in the workplace face massive repercussions for calling out racism and micro aggressions in the workplace, in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s, it was unimaginable.

What were these people supposed to do? Tell you that you were being offensive or that you were making them uncomfortable? You are genuinely unaware that society isn’t structured in such a way as to allow POC to do that with ease? And that this was considerably worse before?

@ShinyHappyPoster

I don't think a blanket ban is a good idea. MN has a reporting system. Threads and posts get deleted for racism. I can't think of any topic that has a blanket ban because such bans are open to abuse by louder, bullying posters determined to direct the conversation and pretend there is homogenous agreement rather than their agenda.

I do think MN should make more posters aware that if they breach the Equalities Act or post comments that could be perceived as hate incidents then MN could release their details to any authority that asks for it.

Just to add to this, when dh was called “ch*nk” by a group of people in the street and we reported it to the police, they treated it as a hate crime - looked at cctv images, interviewed business on the road where it happened and wanted to find them and prosecute.

So certain posters who have faux-“innocently” asked what was wrong with saying it, might be in for a shock if they actually do.

And I wonder how they justify even thinking it’s ok when the police have a very different opinion.

I agree , there are some posters who seem to hang around waiting for this type if thread so they can add in their goady comments it seems. Always couched in a PC gone mad or whataboutery.

@OrangeCinnamonCroissant

I agree , there are some posters who seem to hang around waiting for this type if thread so they can add in their goady comments it seems. Always couched in a PC gone mad or whataboutery.

You missed woke and vitue signalling

MN likes the clicks this culture war narrative brings, the right wing have well and truly gained a foot hold here, on the feminism boards they got to re invent themselves and call themselves gender critical while the use of 'woke' and other dog whistle phrases are used so often in threads, MN is not a safe space for POC or trans people

‘Why a dark-skinned person can say the N-word but as a white person I can't even type it out without being criticised.’

I’m a Black person, not particularly dark skinned (but I’m not light skinned). F*!Why the hell does it matter whether my skin is light brown, mid brown or dark brown!? (This is Colourism).
I have brown skin and I refer to myself as a Black person.

Anyway, I am Black and have never had or felt the need to say or write out the N-word. Why not? Because why the hell would I need to. It’s an awful and ugly word that I choose not to use, type/write. I can’t even bring myself to type out the F-word properly, so why would I type the N-word as a Black person???

I don’t give a F what other Black people want to call themselves or each other. I have and will not be using that disgusting slur ever against myself or others. It’s not in my vocabulary or in the vocabulary of my family or friends that are Black. My DC will never hear the N-word from us or anyone in our circle. They will most probably hear it on TV/social media or most definitely from someone who will use it as a weapon against them.

Why do you think it should be okay for you (as a person with non-brown skin) to say or write/type out the N-word knowing that you WILL offend some people?

If a Black person used the N-word around me, they would be told to never use that word around me again and I would hand their arse to them on a plate. It’s never happened. I would not like to think about how I would react if a non-Black person had the guts to utter the N word around me.

A few years on, I’m still pissed off with myself for not stopping in my car and causing a rush hour traffic jam and calling the Police when a White women shouted out of her car window ‘…..Black B*h’.
Mini roundabout. I had right of way but she didn’t want to let me go. I was on the way back home from the supermarket and didn’t want the ice-cream to melt. The DC were at home with others and time was tight.
A fellow brown skinned Asian guy shouted out of his car window to her in my defence. I should have held up the London rush hour traffic, although I have no faith that that the Police would have supported me and treated the incident as a genuine hate crime. Which is why my instant reaction was to keep driving and not to ruin the ice cream.

20+ years ago, my partner got stopped by Police in his nice flash company car a couple of years into his graduate position. He got out the car, opened the boot to get his work ID out of his laptop bag. He showed the Police Officer his work ID (silicon valley company) and was asked ‘Where did you get that from then (the ID card)?’

He was not speeding or driving without due care or attention, etc. He was stopped because he was Black in an expensive car that he apparently should not be able to afford, unless he is involved in criminal activity.

This is some of the racist shit that is inflicted on us. The rest are constant daily micro aggressions, stupid ignorant questions, being ignored, CV’s in the bin as our surnames look foreign, passed up for promotion, posters posting racist bile on SM, no hellos, smiles or even eyes crossing from some at the school gates even though your DC has been playing with their DC for years, etc, etc..

@Nocaloriesinchocolate

WTF! That was a ridiculous question and racist. It’s
also known as a micro aggression. Why would anyone conjure up such a question and have the brass neck to ask it out loud!??
Did you ask your colleague (who you were senior to) if she was happy after you asked her that!? 🙄 What!? - she was okay with your question because she still seemed happy after your f**d up question?
What were you expecting her face and/or her demeanour to look like after you asked her that!??
And your add on re. your request for photocopying as she was subordinate to you! 🤨 You could be called a few other things as well as racist.

Yes, you should feel bad, although way too late. And reading this thread has made you realise that?

I know I sound harsh, but I really can’t believe some of the things I read on MN. Sorry, but not sorry. I appreciate you sharing if you’re being genuine.

@theidiotnextdoor

I did not see the other thread, but I respect the fact that you come on here to explain further and apologise after realising how you came across.

@JustAnotherPoster00

MN likes the clicks this culture war narrative brings, the right wing have well and truly gained a foot hold here, on the feminism boards they got to re invent themselves and call themselves gender critical while the use of 'woke' and other dog whistle phrases are used so often in threads, MN is not a safe space for POC or trans people

Why are you bringing this into it? And how dare you make such sweeping statements? The majority of gender critical women in the Uk are staunchly left wing. This isn't the USA, ffs.

I don’t have a problem asking me where I’m from and/or where my parents are from, as it tends to lead to interesting conversations as my heritage that I’m aware of is quite rich (Black/Asian). The rest of it I know nothing of as it was stolen (The Transatlantic Slave Trade).

What I have a problem with, is people who ask because they are racist and questioning my right to live in a country I had no choice to be born in. This rarely happens but it if obvious when it does.

For the record, I don’t mind decent genuine people asking questions about racism, otherwise we won’t get anywhere. It’s progress. But they must read and educate themselves further. FFS it’s 2020 and Google is your friend.

How many non-white people work for MN HQ? - There’s your answer 😐

And you want MN to assess what is racism/offensive? 😄

*FFS it’s 2022 and Google is your friend.

@Mrstamborineman

black and Asian minorities do not exist to educate white ones, is that its PC gorn mad and you used the word ‘chink’, tee hee and of course it’s not racist.

*’There are an abundance of resources on racism’**

Op please follow your own advice, the correct term is is Black, Asian, and Minority Ethnic groups. Not as your op reads, Black Asian Minorities. You have excluded all Minority Ethnic groups. The detail gives away how much how much of the abundance of resources on racism a person notices. It might not matter to you, but does to someone else.

However, yes that word beginning C you refer to (and no, I don’t mean cunt is awful.

Not as your op reads, Black Asian Minorities.

Why have you capitalised it? OP never wrote it like that.

I agree OP, there’s still too much acceptance of racist terms.

And I’m not BAME; I’m Black Afro-Caribbean/Asian (West African/Grenadian/Jamaican/Scottish/Indian along with all of the other European DNA percentages that were mixed in due to the slavery of my African ancestors).

I’ve never been comfortable with the term BAME/BLAME and I don’t like POC either. If you’re not sure - just ask. But, only if you’re genuinely interested and not being racist or trying to ‘other’ people.

@theidiotnextdoor

You should not feel personal shame or feel disgusted about yourself for what your white ancestors did or what people the same race as you have done, e.g. Stephen Lawrence. That was not your decision or your fault.
Just educate yourself so you and your descendants are the right side of history going forward. Simply, treat all people how you would like to be treated regardless of their race, skin colour, language, hair colour & texture, culture, ethnicity, the shape of their eyes, sexual orientation, etc.

Also, challenge racism and other forms of discrimination whenever you see or hear it - every damn time.

I was accused of being racist a few months ago, as I was stood on a tram at the exit and some ladies of a different ethnic group tried to push in front of me, all I said was excuse me.

Its damn easy to be accused of racism these days as you just annoy someone of a different race.

Yeah that happened

Yes it did happen

Sure

What’s your point then, @phishy?

Because it’s sounding as if you are saying that hundreds of years of slavery, of abuse and rape and murder, then of years of oppression following the abolition of slavery, as if Emmett Till and Rosa Parks and then on this side of the pond, as if the New Cross Fire and Stephen Lawrence, and moving into this century, as if black women being four times more likely to die in pregnancy / childbirth, but ah, well. Someone accused you of being racist and you clearly weren’t, so FFS, racism never happens, does it?