I don’t think asking mn if something you did / said was racist should be allowed

[Gardensparrows]

They may or may not be genuine but the comments they prompt are awful.

The thread has been taken down but in 2022 I have reported three people for laughing at the word ‘chink’ and it is completely unacceptable.

I didn't see the thread op but you are more than likely right if somebody has to ask if "it's " racist then it probably is.

Yeah I don't like a pile on, but that's pretty ridiculous lljkk.

I'm on the fence here. On one hand, I do think the conversation about what constitutes racism is still ongoing and evolving, which isn't necessarily a bad thing and shouldn't be shut down. It's hard to challenge something in an informed way if you're banned from discussing it. On the other hand, yes, the answers are out there in most cases and these threads do often throw up actual racists and their enablers.

I would probably err on the side of the former, since this is a large, lively discussion forum with a reasonable cross-section of membership - it seems to me that this is the right place for conversations about wider social issues, including sensitive ones.

If lots of MNers of colour (and of course I know they aren't a hive mind!) were vocally asking for it to be banned, though I wouldn't presume to disagree with them. There comes a point for any minority when you don't want to be used as a teaching aid and subjected to all the crap that comes with it.

Nothing else to add other than I agree with you OP. If people truly cared about the impact of their potentially racist behaviour then they would seek to learn from the bountiful resources online and in real communities rather than seeking excusal from a bunch of faceless white women on the internet.
Excellently put.

I did see the thread OP is referring to and caught the use of 'chink' towards the end. Given the whole subject of that thread I honestly wondered if it was done on purpose.

I was the OP of the thread you're discussing. You will never believe that I used that word without realising how inappropriate it was before I posted, so I can only apologise for the insensitivity it betrayed. If I labour that apology now it'll be misconstrued but I am genuinely very sorry. What a nightmare.

@theidiotnextdoor

I was the OP of the thread you're discussing. You will never believe that I used that word without realising how inappropriate it was before I posted, so I can only apologise for the insensitivity it betrayed. If I labour that apology now it'll be misconstrued but I am genuinely very sorry. What a nightmare.

I don't believe there's a single person alive in this country today who doesn't know that "Chink" is an unforgiveable slur. I didn't see your thread, but if that's the word you used you should be ashamed of yourself.

I think there is a place for discussion, and it would be good to be able to ask genuine questions. Problem is weeding out genuine questions from the goady bun fight starters.

I frequently read 'educate yourself' (I am a white English woman) I do do some reading (and I find black Mumsnetters very useful but I don't contribute as obviously I have nothing useful to add), and I have learned over the last few years of some of the struggles that other races face especially the 'small' stuff that'd never occurred to me and isn't actually small at all. But I don't have anyone to ask questions to and woe betide you ask here because then you get 'it's not X's job to educate you, how rude and ignorant are you!'.

No, of course it isn't anyone's 'job'. But there is only so much you can learn from reading and having a dialogue with people who actually experience and fully understand these things - as I never will - means I can in turn educate my own children better. To know more than I did as a child of the 80s and 90s. And if we all did that, in years to come hopefully the problems of today would be significantly less.

It’s a wider issue tbh @theidiotnextdoor

Whether it was used intentionally by you or otherwise it was jumped on with glee by at least two other posters who responded with and 😂 which just isn’t appropriate or acceptable for a racial slur.

@watchtheglitterdustswirl a topic that fascinates me is poverty and its impacts, often rippling through generations. Somehow I manage to learn without stopping poor people and demanding they tell me.

@sadpapercourtesan Oh I don't know about that.

My Dad, who is actually not of English heritage himself and would be horrified to be thought of as racist frequently uses the term 'let's go for a ch*nky' when he means let's go for a Chinese takeaway. It's just what he's always called it. I have him an absolute bollocking for saying it in front of my children a few weeks ago. Luckily they didn't hear or if they did they didn't notice.

He's 60. So not old, by any means.

[quote Gardensparrows]@watchtheglitterdustswirl a topic that fascinates me is poverty and its impacts, often rippling through generations. Somehow I manage to learn without stopping poor people and demanding they tell me.[/quote]
Yep, that's a fair point.

Start your education with not defending the use of that word, maybe @watchtheglitterdustswirl

Part of educating yourself though is surely talking to people from those communities (if they are happy to do so). You can read multiple books and official resources but sometimes actually hearing from people at the forefront is as valuable if not more.

As someone who lives in an area with very little diversity I do find that reading things like threads on here can be an eye opener to things I would never normally consider - obviously I don’t include the word used in the example on this thread there - which is all part of developing.

[quote watchtheglitterdustswirl]@sadpapercourtesan Oh I don't know about that.

My Dad, who is actually not of English heritage himself and would be horrified to be thought of as racist frequently uses the term 'let's go for a ch*nky' when he means let's go for a Chinese takeaway. It's just what he's always called it. I have him an absolute bollocking for saying it in front of my children a few weeks ago. Luckily they didn't hear or if they did they didn't notice.

He's 60. So not old, by any means. [/quote]
But he does know, doesn't he? Because you've told him. Of course he bloody knows. He chooses to keep saying it anyway.

@Gardensparrows

Start your education with not defending the use of that word, maybe *@watchtheglitterdustswirl*

I'm not defending it! I clearly said I gave him a bollocking.

[quote Gardensparrows]@watchtheglitterdustswirl a topic that fascinates me is poverty and its impacts, often rippling through generations. Somehow I manage to learn without stopping poor people and demanding they tell me.[/quote]
But if people make the choice they are happy to share their experiences then surely that is something you can value as a learning opportunity?

Ds is disabled, quite often I am happy to talk about our experiences if others want to learn from them. If I don’t want to I will say (or if on here avoid the thread)

Nobody should be expected to educate someone on any topic but if people are happy to share their personal experiences that can be an invaluable source.

Part of educating yourself though is surely talking to people from those communities

No, @Sirzy, that’s being nosy. Not educating yourself.

Most people, whatever skin colour, tend to be congenial and polite and won’t communicate their discomfort about being quizzed about their skin colour, origin of birth (or their parents.) It tends to only be in the anonymity of the internet people can say they actually don’t like it.

Educating yourself is actually knowing about subliminal racism, about the history of it and about how it impacts people today. Not stopping Mrs Jones and asking her about it

Whether it was used intentionally by you or otherwise it was jumped on with glee by at least two other posters who responded with and 😂 which just isn’t appropriate or acceptable for a racial slur.

If it makes any difference, I was none the wiser until I read your thread and now I can see what happened and it horrifies me. My own ignorance, and the opportunism of the people who picked up on the word. I feel heartsick. And it has been said on this thread about the potential for abuse on anonymous forums. My head is spinning but I accept that point too.

Believe me, I'm not sitting here thinking "nobody will ever know it was me." I know I was involved and as you might have understood from the other thread, it's not going down easy here.

I don't think anyone is saying they would stop someone in the street and quiz them at all! That would be rude and intrusive, whatever you were asking about.

@Sirzy's example is a good one. My child also has a disability and sometimes people ask me about it. As long as they're not asking in a rude judgy way I can only see the benefits on spreading awareness of their condition. It's not my place or job to educate the world on this disability either but every little helps!

Racism is on the rise, though. Trumpism and Brexit have shifted the Overton window on what is socially acceptable, and the pandemic/financial stress has polarised and hardened attitudes. Antisemitism and islamophobia are known problems in BOTH leading political parties. It's terrifying.

I would caution anyone looking to be educated about anything from unknown sources.

Seek out a resource from someone willing to go on record with their real name and face alongside their opinion. As PP have pointed out, there is an abundance of information including articles, interviews, studies etc. as well as spaces to discuss them specifically if you’re still confused.

A random person on MN is not someone you should be trusting for an education about anything really.

@StillWeRise
I'm from a mainly white northern ex mining pit village.
I'm also nearer 60 than 50.
I'm still capable of working out what racism is.