Stupid UC changes

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

So now you have 4 weeks to get a job you could actually do - then you just have to apply for anything/everything.

Every time we have a thread on here about recruitment, the HR wonks pop up and complain about all the "dross" applications from people not qualified for their wonderful opportunities - how will this help?

Rather than punishing people for lack of suitable vacancies it is time the goverment tried to help employers to offer more and better jobs.

I refuse to believe that someone born in this country, speaking perfect English, having British passport can't sort out their life and get a job that pays enough to stop claiming benefits. I do however believe that if you are born in the country when you are handed enough cash that you don't have to work - some people will always find an excuse not to.

The you are massively deluded. Have you not read the news recently? 7 million people in the U.K. working full-time STILL need to claim UC in order to stay above the breadline. Until employers address wages properly and offer a proper living wage in keeping with rising prices in food and utilities and rental prices, then people will continue to need to rely on benefit top ups.

And as for them government handing out enough money to live on.. don't make me laugh. Just why do you think the use of food banks is at an all time high? They're not just used by the most impoverished, they're used by care workers and teachers and HCP. Because the wages in the U.K. compared to the cost of living don't tally.

Do you know how many children are living in poverty in the U.K.? In 2019 there were almost 5 million children living in poverty. More now, I imagine, as so many people lost their jobs and businesses during lockdowns. Do you think all those children belong to people who don't work??

And what does the government do to improve this? It brings in a clause that after 4 weeks you have to apply for any job - no matter how unsuitable - or risk being sanctioned and losing benefits. It brings about a vaccine mandate threatening to sack any NHS worker who isn't vaccinated by 1st April, meaning countless thousands have to choose between the right to body autonomy or their livelihood - these people we stood on our doorsteps and clapped for, our NHS heroes.

That's the country you live in. That's the government people voted for.

And you can't see how utterly tone deaf your comments are?

@KurtWilde honestly no, I can't see that. I grew up in Soviet Union in the 90s, where there was no food, no benefits, and my father had to run his old car as a taxi in the evening (after his regular work) - just so we had food to eat. We had no living room, because it was 1 bed flat - so my parents had a room, I had a room, and there was also a tiny kitchen. Due to all those reasons I don't have any siblings, because my parents couldn't afford more kids in their situation. So please spare me the details of how hard it is to live in Britain with social housing, various benefits and cheap food - when I was born there was no food in supermarkets full stop. They were empty.

so I refuse to believe that someone born in this country, speaking perfect English, having British passport can't sort out their life and get a job that pays enough to stop claiming benefits.

You refusing to believe it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it just means you refuse to accept any experience outside your own, which is rather narrow minded.
And secondly get a job that pays enough to get off benefits
Can I have your suggestions as to who is actually going to do the jobs that we rely on that doesn't pay enough to be off benefits, even full time? If everyone goes off and gets a job that pays enough to be 'off benefits'?
Who is going to serve you in the shop? Who's going to care for the elderly and disabled? Who's going to serve you with that coffee on your way to your job that pays enough to not be on benefits? Who's going to look after your kids at nursery?

As a society we rely on these jobs that don't pay enough to 'be off benefits' so that other people can go and do their better jobs that don't pay enough to be 'off benefits'. Most people in that situation don't think past their "get a better job" nonsense to realise that.

As a society we rely on these jobs that don't pay enough to 'be off benefits' so that other people can go and do their better jobs that don't pay enough to be 'off benefits'. Most people in that situation don't think past their "get a better job" nonsense to realise that.

That should have read -

As a society we rely on these jobs that don't pay enough to 'be off benefits' so that other people can go and do their better jobs that do pay enough to be 'off benefits'. Most people in that situation don't think past their "get a better job" nonsense to realise that.

so I refuse to believe that someone born in this country, speaking perfect English, having British passport can't sort out their life and get a job that pays enough to stop claiming benefits.

1. Disabled and long-term ill people exist. Some can work. Others are too ill or disabled (there'll be more soon - with Long Covid).

1. Exactly as SweetFelicity says. Those low waged jobs are essential jobs. They are as important to society as the 'better' jobs - and it's time that we started to value them more.

Every job should pay a fair wage and provide decent conditions of employment.

Of course there's only so much an employer can pay (particularly a small business), and it would be very hard to keep up with the out of control housing market.

The answer is to tackle the public health housing and homelessness emergency.

We need to boost the construction industry with a large social housing build.

And loosen mortgage affordability criteria. Obviously there's a need to avoid a subprime type crisis, but the balance has swung too far in the other direction.

Although the attention usually focuses on deposits, for a growing number of would be FTB the issue is lender affordability criteria. The number of would be FTB affected by this has risen to around 40%.

@Acidburn no - but we do need a govt and a system that treats people humanely and with compassion and understanding.

I don't think that's asking too much!

I first started work when I was 14, at 16 I worked full time and studied part time and lived in a bedsit, at 18 after getting my a levels I was able to get a better paid job and enter a flat share.

I'm not averse to hard work I know very few people who are!

But at times when I NEEDED help I was/am treated as if I was/am lazy, feckless scum!

The times I needed help primarily were :

When I first became a single mum due to ex cheating and knocking up ow!

When I became disabled through no fault of my own (not that fault should matter!)

I have literally BEGGED for help/guidance/advice/training to get back into work and there has been none!

I have applied for hundreds of jobs and the employers don't even do the courtesy of an electronic mail shot informing candidates the post has been filled.

I've also seen how others in the system have been treated and it's a fucking disgrace!

Even if either a person or a system/dept is ideologically opposed to the welfare system that's NEVER an excuse to treat individual people like crap! Which is what happens all the bloody time!

I will not be blaming the government/ the public / the world for my mistakes.

Please DO say what "mistakes" you are referring to!

My daughter was NOT a mistake

My disability was not MY mistake

No one forces you to live in places that are too rural to travel to work from

And what about the people BORN in rural areas who don't have the money or ability to move away? Moving house costs money!

No one forces you to have too many children who require constant childcare so you can't go back to work.

Peoples circumstances change!

As in my earlier post when I had my daughter I was married, working, solvent. There is absolutely no way at that point I could have predicted my ex cheating and becoming a deadbeat dad, or the accident that caused my disability.

Be careful - NOBODY knows what is around the corner life can turn on you!

And KurtWilde is right - all you said doesn't even consider the ESSENTIAL workers who are on nmw working full time and still needing UC top ups because nmw even at full time hours ISN'T ENOUGH TO LIVE ON

And you can't see how utterly tone deaf your comments are?

Clearly not!

I can't see that. I grew up in Soviet Union in the 90s

Did you used to post under another name? That history seems familiar

We had no living room, because it was 1 bed flat there are families in this country NOW not even in flats living in ONE room all together - not even a separate kitchen!

Tealightsandd - if you haven't already (I suspect you may have) you may be interested to look into just how many Mp'S (of all parties) are landlords, multiple property owners, have shares or their immediate family do in construction, property development etc

Then look at how those mps vote on housing issues!

It's a horrifically corrupt mess! They have a vested interest in keeping house prices high.

It should be illegal as a conflict of interest.

@MintJulia

I think they are saying 'take a job as a supermarket driver or admin while looking for the right job for you.'

In 2020 after 30 years in tech marketing I found myself furloughed and then out of work. No conferences, no need for a conference organiser. After months searching, during which I applied for 70 jobs, I took a public sector admin role on 1/2 normal salary. I was lucky. I worked 1 day, went home and found I had been offered a great job so I switched. But at least I was willing to give it a go.
And my mortgage needed paying. No one was going to pay it for me which focuses the mind somewhat.

I think one of the points being made is to think of the poor people who recruited for that role. The hours they spent sifting through hundreds of unsuitable applications, scoring them (if it's public sector they probably had to score every single one), shortlisting, arranging interviews, interviewing, writing up interview notes on every single person interviewed, onboarding, payroll admin, inductions... and then, after getting one day's work, they had to do the whole thing again. What a waste.

@ABCDEF1234

Why should the tax payers pay why you continue to search for the job you want. Take any job and then look for the job you want whilst working. I find it crazy that people were ever allowed to wait for a job they want as opposed to any job that pays some bills.

Uh, because they are the tax payer that's just been paying into the system that's supposed to support them when jobless, that's why.

[quote Graphista]@Acidburn no - but we do need a govt and a system that treats people humanely and with compassion and understanding.

I don't think that's asking too much!

I first started work when I was 14, at 16 I worked full time and studied part time and lived in a bedsit, at 18 after getting my a levels I was able to get a better paid job and enter a flat share.

I'm not averse to hard work I know very few people who are!

But at times when I NEEDED help I was/am treated as if I was/am lazy, feckless scum!

The times I needed help primarily were :

When I first became a single mum due to ex cheating and knocking up ow!

When I became disabled through no fault of my own (not that fault should matter!)

I have literally BEGGED for help/guidance/advice/training to get back into work and there has been none!

I have applied for hundreds of jobs and the employers don't even do the courtesy of an electronic mail shot informing candidates the post has been filled.

I've also seen how others in the system have been treated and it's a fucking disgrace!

Even if either a person or a system/dept is ideologically opposed to the welfare system that's NEVER an excuse to treat individual people like crap! Which is what happens all the bloody time!

I will not be blaming the government/ the public / the world for my mistakes.

Please DO say what "mistakes" you are referring to!

My daughter was NOT a mistake

My disability was not MY mistake

No one forces you to live in places that are too rural to travel to work from

And what about the people BORN in rural areas who don't have the money or ability to move away? Moving house costs money!

No one forces you to have too many children who require constant childcare so you can't go back to work.

Peoples circumstances change!

As in my earlier post when I had my daughter I was married, working, solvent. There is absolutely no way at that point I could have predicted my ex cheating and becoming a deadbeat dad, or the accident that caused my disability.

Be careful - NOBODY knows what is around the corner life can turn on you!

And KurtWilde is right - all you said doesn't even consider the ESSENTIAL workers who are on nmw working full time and still needing UC top ups because nmw even at full time hours ISN'T ENOUGH TO LIVE ON

And you can't see how utterly tone deaf your comments are?

Clearly not!

I can't see that. I grew up in Soviet Union in the 90s

Did you used to post under another name? That history seems familiar

We had no living room, because it was 1 bed flat there are families in this country NOW not even in flats living in ONE room all together - not even a separate kitchen!

Tealightsandd - if you haven't already (I suspect you may have) you may be interested to look into just how many Mp'S (of all parties) are landlords, multiple property owners, have shares or their immediate family do in construction, property development etc

Then look at how those mps vote on housing issues!

It's a horrifically corrupt mess! They have a vested interest in keeping house prices high.

It should be illegal as a conflict of interest.
[/quote]
Very eloquent.

DH has retired, which means that I lose child tax credit and have to apply for universal credit. My son has ADHD but doesn't get DLA at the moment, so this is going to be nearly impossible.

@Graphista

Tealightsandd - if you haven't already (I suspect you may have) you may be interested to look into just how many Mp'S (of all parties) are landlords, multiple property owners, have shares or their immediate family do in construction, property development etc

Then look at how those mps vote on housing issues!

It's a horrifically corrupt mess! They have a vested interest in keeping house prices high.

It should be illegal as a conflict of interest.

You're 100% right.

@Graphista The rest of your post is excellent too.

I currently get LCWRA. However, I am terrified of being assessed as fit to work. I haven't needed to look for a job since 2019, but that doesn't stop me looking and applying for any job I can do from a wheelchair. Unfortunately, despite everything, I haven't had an interview since 2019 simply because many of the jobs I can do from a wheelchair, I have zero experience in and all employers want experience. So, what am I meant to do if I'm expected to find a job? I'm trying when I'm not meant to be and getting nowhere. I dread what will happen if I'm pressured to apply to Asda because "well, they have jobs available to stack shelves and they can make adjustments for you being in a wheelchair."

@Graphista

Oldsu you're also describing a reputable employer who is genuinely interested in providing help and support - not all employers are like that and they're rarely checked up on to see if they're sticking to the spirit of such schemes

Re your comment on people on benefits being afraid to rock the boat - do you get WHY we feel that way?! It is terrifying! And when you're on that tight a budget you can't create a savings safety net for yourself! What if the job doesn't work out? You're also doing a thing a lot of govt people do in assuming just because the income increases when people are working that means they're "better off in work" WITHOUT taking into account properly :

What they lose (not just in terms of income but also associated issues like prescription costs, if a claimant is in poor health/has a chronic condition and on a lot of meds that aren't covered by the 'free meds for life threatening conditions' rule then how are they supposed to afford them? What if they are a spectacle wearer? Need a hearing aid? Need mobility aids? What about childcare or elder care? Transport costs, clothes for work if there's a dress code (or even just so you don't feel a scruff bag!), money for lunches if there's nowhere to store a packed lunch safely? "Better off in work" calculations rarely take all these kind of things into consideration !

some (not all) is peoples expectations of what they think they should get.

Or maybe they know what their minimum outgoings are/will be and know they couldn't AFFORD to do x job?

At which point you request a hardship payment.

Which they can and often do reject

*@Graphista* I resent your comments about me doing a lot of things that govt people do, as I said I am on various benefit boards and the people who tell posters they are better off if they increase their hours or get a better paid job are usually UC claimants themselves. Some of things you are saying are ill thought out, cant afford medication if you work? the NHS has a low income scheme which I have investigated primarily because a lot of the older people I help are worried about free prescriptions ending for over 60s and the scheme covers glasses and dental work as well as for hearing aids are you serious??? I have just starting wearing them I could have gone through the NHS and got free hearing aids there is actually no minimum income or having to be on certain benefits to get them but I could afford to pay for them myself and I believe in saving NHS money, but even with my salary I would have got them free on the NHS without question, mobility aids? I help older people get these, you don't have to be on qualifying benefits to get them in fact the state pension is not a qualifying benefit for anything as its contribution based, you don't need to be on disability benefits either, many older people are just on attendance allowance which has no mobility component but they still get them.

Some of your other statements are true and need to be addressed, free childcare should be made easier and paid upfront not in arrears and carers allowance is laughable and cruel and should be a lot higher.

As for not being able to AFFORD to do a job well that's nothing new is it, it certainly was true in the 90s when my husband and were made redundant in the same week and he had to go back to college I couldn't really AFFORD to take the low paid packing job at a third of my old salary but that was the days before tax credits and UC there was no help at all, fortunately for me by the time DH got a better paid job I had already been promoted twice by my company.

But you HAVE given me a good idea about clothing, I went to a senior managers meeting in a £6 Zara jacket that I got from a charity shop, my DH runs 2 and I am going to suggest to him that he contacts his charity to see if they could run a scheme to give free or discounted clothing to people on benefits for interviews etc they give free clothing to the homeless and part of their Ethos is to eliminate poverty so its something they may well want to run with - that's what I like to do actually look at ways to help people get what they are entitled or try to guide people to the help which is actually out there not just find arguments against things without doing any research

[quote BringBackThinEyebrows]@ItsCoachBombay I hope she gets something more relevant to her skillset soon. I knew a few people who took delivery driving roles and warehouse work to get through covid and thankfully they're getting back into their industries.

@Oldsu Did you not read my post? I didn't suggest your husband's company is replacing existing workers or only recruiting Kickstart participants. I know about the scheme hence I know:
-Employers get £1500 per placement
-The government fund up to 25 hours per week for 6 months, hence 25 government-funded hours
-Many participants earn so little that they still rely on Universal Credit payments
-The majority of roles are 'entry level' jobs. It shouldn't take a scheme to obtain those jobs.

There are many ways young people can already get support with their CV. School, college, National Careers Service, job clubs, plenty of advice online and probably organisations the Jobcentre can refer them to.

Training for a job is a given, so the only perk is participants get help with their CV. Meanwhile, your husband's ethical company is cashing in (£1500) on employees they don't have to pay (at least anything below 25 hours). Who is really benefiting?

9 x £1500= £13,500 and they company's patting itself on the back for providing a bit of help with 9 CVs [/quote]
@BringBackThinEyebrows you still don't get it do you, if you have a company with say 20 workers and you only have work for 20 workers you are not going to take on another person, BUT that scheme allows you to do that even for 6 months at little cost, that job would NOT exist otherwise would it? if you know the scheme as you say why don't you know that? or its different if you only have 19 with work for 20 and use someone on that scheme to take on the role of the extra person instead of recruiting maybe some do that but my DH company doesn't and if my employers decide to use it they wouldn't either.

As for patting themselves on the back for helping writing 9 CVs and according and being the only 'perk' I have mentioned e learning a couple of times which you have ignored, e learning at my DHs company have about 50 (at the moment) modules, which includes communication, problem solving, time management, all sorts of legislation including health and safety, and equality, some are specific to a job, some are specific to the organisation and some will help them in other jobs and other employers to take the module you have to do a lot of reading, and pass a test with at least a 72% pass mark, it can be done during business hours or at home and the trainer can see what modules have been taken and the pass mark and offer more 121 support = now that's more than writing 9 CVS isn't it or are you going to post an infantile emoji about that as well.

You can post all you want against it but 7 people (at the moment) at my DH company have full time jobs (even though YOU don't like the salary) which they wouldn't have got if not for the scheme and I am sure there are many more out there in fact a friends daughter is on it so I will be finding out how its worked for her

As for not being able to AFFORD to do a job well that's nothing new is it, it certainly was true in the 90s when my husband and were made redundant in the same week and he had to go back to college I couldn't really AFFORD to take the low paid packing job at a third of my old salary but that was the days before tax credits and UC there was no help at all, fortunately for me by the time DH got a better paid job I had already been promoted twice by my company.

thats not true, there was Family Credit, Income Support, Job Seekers allowance in the mid 90s that was really just a re badge of unemployment benefit and housing benefit.

But you HAVE given me a good idea about clothing, I went to a senior managers meeting in a £6 Zara jacket that I got from a charity shop, my DH runs 2 and I am going to suggest to him that he contacts his charity to see if they could run a scheme to give free or discounted clothing to people on benefits for interviews etc they give free clothing to the homeless and part of their Ethos is to eliminate poverty so its something they may well want to run with - that's what I like to do actually look at ways to help people get what they are entitled or try to guide people to the help which is actually out there not just find arguments against things without doing any research

there have been schemes to give the unemployed interview clothing for years it started out as vouchers (£150) for the arcadia group, then it changed to being part of the JCP discretionary funding that could be allocated to a client to pay for interview clothing or work wear/tools etc it was each JCPs decision what they ear marked the money for (no idea if they still have it they dont advertise it) and theres always been charities that provide suits for interviews like Suited for Success.

Oldsu

if you did not have those 9 people would your husbands company be advertising for extra staff?

and if not then what the hell are those 9 people doing all day if there is no work to be done?

@VelvetChairGirl

Oldsu

if you did not have those 9 people would your husbands company be advertising for extra staff?

and if not then what the hell are those 9 people doing all day if there is no work to be done?

It sounds like the Kickstart participants at @Oldsu's husband's workplace spent their 25 government-funded hours each week for 6 months doing amazing e learning and creating the best CVs ever.

Most Kickstart participants spend their placement working hard, knowing that the company is paying nothing towards their wage, and they still have to meet commitments to claim UC.

Many job adverts ask for '1 year experience' so that 6 months might not be so beneficial. The scheme is just to inflate employment figures and benefit employers, not jobseekers.

@Domino20 and @Tealightsandd
thank you

Where have I said you do things govt people do? They're far worse!

Not ill thought out - reality for some people. It depends on the job, the pay and the person involved and their situation everyone's is different.

Agree the free childcare is currently an over complicate and unrealistic mess

Carers allowance IS laughable

Yea true about not being able to afford to do a job but it's a lot worse now, eg the clothes thing. You used to be able to get help to get at least one decent outfit inc a good warm, waterproof coat - that's gone now.

I work with a charity locally to me that helps with interview clothes and a few outfits for starting a new job but as I said local and far from widespread.

But it's not acceptable that charities are having to step in.

It sounds like the Kickstart participants at @Oldsu*'s husband's workplace spent their 25 government-funded hours each week for 6 months doing amazing e learning and creating the best CVs ever.

Most Kickstart participants spend their placement working hard, knowing that the company is paying nothing towards their wage, and they still have to meet commitments to claim UC.

Many job adverts ask for '1 year experience' so that 6 months might not be so beneficial. The scheme is just to inflate employment figures and benefit employers, not jobseekers.*

you can find courses online to do CV writing etc, I have done tonnes of these courses over the years and have 1 week course mickey mouse certificates from the DWP in health and safety, its not a full H&S certificate its a recognition of having a portfolio working towards a H&S certificate or something like that, the others are the same the customer service skills certificate, computer skills etc all in house none recognized toilet paper.

I have done lots of work placements the last one was before the pandemic at a charity that redistributes left overs from supermarkets to other charities like soup kitchens, but when ever I get asked in interview why I was only in this job for 1 month or why I left this one after 6 months etc and I tell them what they were, they discount them and say work experience isnt a proper job. so I either tell them the truth and have it dismissed or lie and say I am leaving jobs fast which obviously sounds worse imho.

but my point was if those 9 people where not needed and there was no job to do, what where they doing and how could he possibly employ 7 of them afterwards if there was no job to do in the first place?

@VelvetChairGirl

but my point was if those 9 people where not needed and there was no job to do, what where they doing and how could he possibly employ 7 of them afterwards if there was no job to do in the first place?

Spot on. Of course there's work to be done, the employers are just taking advantage of a bullshit scheme.

Spot on. Of course there's work to be done, the employers are just taking advantage of a bullshit scheme.

Same as happened with YTS