Stupid UC changes

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

So now you have 4 weeks to get a job you could actually do - then you just have to apply for anything/everything.

Every time we have a thread on here about recruitment, the HR wonks pop up and complain about all the "dross" applications from people not qualified for their wonderful opportunities - how will this help?

Rather than punishing people for lack of suitable vacancies it is time the goverment tried to help employers to offer more and better jobs.

[quote BringBackThinEyebrows]@Oldsu so you'll know that your husband's workplace received £1500 for every Kickstart employee they took on, while getting 25 hours government-funded labour each week and that young person earns so little they still have to receive Universal Credit.

Kickstart roles could easily be entry level roles (warehouse, admin, cleaner, support worker etc.). A Kickstart placement lasts 6 months so it doesn't guarantee secure employment. If 'help with a CV' and 'training' are the benefits for Kickstart participants, that's depressing. Adequate training should be provided as standard for all roles.[/quote]
@BringBackThinEyebrows did you read my post, my DH company and other companies on the scheme do not get paid and then get government funded labour INSTEAD of recruiting the normal way and paying the staff, they are not allowed to use people on the scheme to fill existing or planned vacancies , the vacancy can only exist for one purpose and that is to take someone on the scheme, nor can they replace existing staff or cut existing staff hours to take people on the scheme and they don't, they are a very ethical company

Why is it depressing that training is given on CV writing, obviously you wouldn't train someone who applied the usual way, but some of the young people on the scheme have never had an interview where they have submitted their CV, actually getting help writing one for these young people is something that actually helps them, and again if you apply for an admin position you should have adequate training for that position, but with DH company the young people are extra to the workforce, therefore they can rotate between different departments and have training in different departments and yes it does help. And I mentioned e learning some of those modules are tough even with my vast work experience I struggled myself with some of them so the training is actually good.

Yes it doesn't guarantee full time work which is why my DH company are rather pleased that they could offer 7 out of 9 young people not only full time work but at a rate which is currently higher than the new living wage coming into force in April, of course they may still have to claim UC, but people of all ages are working and claiming, its a sad fact of life.

This kinda does look like a just a rebranded job. and the GOV website states you get paid and the wage is covered by DWP.

" Summary

To apply for this job, you must be claiming Universal Credit and 16 to 24 years old.

EMPLOYER
PARTAP FASHION FABRICS LIMITED

JOB SUMMARY
Sorting and packing orders. This includes receiving, and handling communication between freight companies and suppliers.
Responsible for the data entry and inventory of all stock.

SKILLS NEEDED
Ability to work in a team, communication skills both written and verbal.

WORKING HOURS
2.5 Days per week"

this one too, looks like a job

Summary

To apply for this job, you must be claiming Universal Credit and 16 to 24 years old.

EMPLOYER
Johns&Co Real Estate (services) Limited

JOB SUMMARY
This is a sales role and will involve lots of calling out to databases, some will be warm leads and some cold leads. This role is focused on business and lead generation.

JOHNS&CO- Making you feel at home since 2013.

We are a specialist agent for the premium New Homes and Luxury Real Estate markets who also have a portfolio of more traditional properties. We service Investors, Tenants, Vendors and Buyers in the UK and have international offices and a large presence in Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai.

Our people are the core of everything we do and why we have been so successful over the last 8 years. Yes you heard it right, 11 offices in 8 years (we must be doing something right hey?!)

SKILLS NEEDED

• Confident personality
• Sales skills
• Happy to cold call
• Can speak with confidence
• Resilient
• Loves working to targets

WORKING HOURS
25hrs per week. Flexible days - Flexible hours

So how are these not things that would have been advertised as vacancies before?

" Summary

To apply for this job, you must be claiming Universal Credit and 16 to 24 years old.

EMPLOYER
Juniper Uniform Ltd

JOB SUMMARY
The vast majority of items of school uniform have a logo either embroidered or printed on to them.

Whilst the bulk of our stock arrives already embroidered, we still do a significant amount of this work in-house.

Your job will be to apply embroidery and prints to items of school uniform using commercial embroidery machines and heat-presses.

If you have a creative flair you will also have the opportunity to put this to good use as part of our prospective new area of business.

We are a well-established and expanding schoolwear specialist.

With the exception of a couple of oldies (who are still seriously youthful!) we are a young and fun team.

We are efficient and organised and have a reputation for excellent customer service; we are keen to find someone to join us who will benefit from our knowledge and experience and who will enjoy their time with us.

Schoolwear is a hugely seasonal industry so be prepared for a busy summer!

SKILLS NEEDED
We are looking for someone who is:-

enthusiastic
conscientious
punctual
curious
willing to muck-in
a bit of a perfectionist
happy working as part of a close-knit team
preferably computer-literate but, if not, willing to learn.

An eye to detail is a must!

Grade C GCSE (or equivalent) Maths and English preferential not essential.

No experience necessary as full training will be given.

WORKING HOURS
Flexible days - Flexible hours to be discussed at interview

HOURLY RATE
National Minimum Wage

ADDITIONAL EMPLOYABILITY SUPPORT
You will:-

Learn how to safely use commercial embroidery machines, printer/cutters and heat presses;
Become familiar with specialist software packages to include Wilcom, CorelDraw/Illustrator;
Receive guidance on how to prioritise your time and work efficiently;
Learn how to work as part of a close-knit team.

You will also receive professional, third-party coaching and mentoring and be taught how to write an effective CV. "

I've had a number of them approach me for advice, to ask if the difficulties they are experiencing are normal (one memorably called me the DAY after she had completed her application querying why she'd not YET had a response!

her reaction when I told her it would likely be several weeks if not MONTHS until she heard ANYTHING and that in all likelihood at that point she would be told she'd not included essential info/evidence and that they wouldn't even look at her claim until she sent that in she was like "what?! That cannot be right you're having me on!" - reader it was 3.5 months before they got back to her! Despite her and I and a welfare advisor chasing!)

At the start of the pandemic before furlough etc became a "thing" there were a number of mn posters posting threads or replying on threads that were having to claim for the first time themselves. They were OUTRAGED that:

They weren't allowed savings above £6k

They wouldn't get their mortgage paid in full

They were expected to cut back on outgoings that Dwp etc would class as luxuries but which they didn't (clothes shopping, leisure activities like kids hobbies etc)

They wouldn't be allowed to just wait until their usual employer resumed business

They had to complete the same application and submit the same evidence as other benefit claimants (eg "why have I got to submit my bank statements?! It's none of their business what I buy")

They were subjected to the same waiting periods

And yes...that if they were now unemployed they were expected to apply for and take any job they were capable of!!

The arguments were quite comically elitist "but I'm allowed to keep savings intended for a house deposit aren't I? That's not included in the savings threshold"

It really was quite something! And yes they mostly DID get their arses handed to them by those of us dealing with this crap for years!!

Oh ffs start of that didn't post

I've just been reading this evening that because of the vaccine mandate babies and new mothers may find their Health Visitors are replaced by people who aren't trained in that particular sector, so safeguarding and health issues may be overlooked as they won't have the knowledge to spot these things.

Jesus!

So this new policy may well prove FATAL for babies!

gogohm pay isn't the only factor, what are the hours? Where is the job based? Does the pay reflect the fact the job requires certain qualifications and experience applicants neither have nor can get due to the massive cuts in training and education?

He needs someone willing to travel and needs to be in the office because working from home didn't work, that seems to be the issue

Ahh

How much travel? When? Overnights? Are the costs covered?

Many employers discriminate against CV gaps and/or disablity/chronic illness.

Ime all do, even those that claim to be "disability friendly"

Last time I was job hunting I made over 300 applications. I received replies from 2 both rejections. The others I never even heard from again, and that was with help from a charity that helps disabled back into work and they were recommending certain employers as they'd had good experiences with them previously and had contact with the recruiting staff.

I hit 50 this year so I'm going to find it even harder!

Finally, many people receiving UC are in full-time work.

Yes

This is often ignored/forgotten by benefits bashers

And not everyone HAS the academic/physical ability to get better paid work. IQ levels and other factors vary PLUS we NEED people in those less well regarded jobs the pandemic has highlighted that!! Supermarket workers, care assistants, council workers etc all essential people they SHOULD be able to earn a LIVING wage if doing full time hours!

There's also cost of living issues, mainly housing! But that's a WHOLE other board never mind thread!!

Finally, many people receiving UC are in full-time work. There's only so much an employer (particularly a smaller business) can afford to increase wages by, before going bust

I'm generally of the opinion that if a business cannot afford to treat its employees decently it has no business being around! I've worked in roles when I am doing the books for small businesses - often where the owners plead poverty when it comes to providing decent terms and conditions for its staff? And I know full well the money is there!

But...even if you feel small businesses need more support, then surely the answer is to fund that support NOT by keeping wages artificially low and topping them up via heavily policed benefits, but by NOT subsidising large businesses (who definitely don't need the help!). Directly helping those businesses that do need help - after scrutinising their books! Put them under the same kind of scrutiny that claimants currently are! That would prove interesting!

In addition we seriously need to tighten up tax loopholes! The country loses far more money through those than "dole scroungrers" and the people doing so don't need the money!

We need to deal with the public health housing and homelessness emergency.

More genuinely affordable housing (including to rent), and then people wouldn't need ever rising (but still not enough for rent/mortgage) wages

As I said that's a whole other level of mess! Lots of corrupt practice there too.

If anybody has seen my fairly old (by now) threads I was on JSA/UC. They gave me 13 weeks to find a job that I was qualified to do. In the end it took me 6, but when you add all the waiting it's more like 11. They gave me peanuts but I'm still grateful.

they wont do that, they are a bunch o landlords.

And this is basically why housing costs are so high!

BeachBreak2411. Which means in various ways you are ABLE to work in hospitality! As a claimant yourself I find it shocking you are so biased against other claimants not as fortunate as yourself

they only wanted people with experience.

Because it's an employers market! They can be as stupidly and unnecessarily fussy as they like! This govt isn't saying to the employers "you need to stop being fussy greedy buggers and provide training" are they? And they've cut education and training to the bone! The nearest college admin course to me is almost 30 miles away!

I remember the days when people were trained on the job

For many jobs this is the best way to learn! Ime certainly in retail, hospitality and customer service

My first job at 14 was working on the checkouts at my local supermarket. Learned on the job. My next part time job (in addition to this job) was waitressing. Also learned on the job. Some of the skills I learned from those roles transferred to my first full time job working in a hotel on reception. And so on and so forth.

Employers have to do THEIR bit.

So does the govt in terms of providing suitable education and training not just at post 16 level but also through school. I was and remain shocked that even within IT based curriculum on schools sod all of that education actually teaches the kids how to discern quality internet search results, how to use MS office (or equivalent), how to create a document, write a formal letter... these are the skills needed! Not how to build a sodding website!

But there are also issues with maths, English, modern languages...

And before anyone says I'm absolutely not blaming teachers! They're only allowed to teach what they're told to teach! The problem is the people deciding that haven't a Fucking clue about real life! The current shower think knowing the Greek myths is important!

Get education back to bloody basics FIRST before you teach more advanced/diverse curriculum.

Graphista

when ever I hear people say they lost their job and and looking for a new one and they think they have enough savings to last a few months before they have to sign on, want to avoid signing on etc.

I also tell them no do it now not when you have run out of money because by then you will be fucked as they take months to process the claim/start giving you any money.

Oldsu you're also describing a reputable employer who is genuinely interested in providing help and support - not all employers are like that and they're rarely checked up on to see if they're sticking to the spirit of such schemes

Re your comment on people on benefits being afraid to rock the boat - do you get WHY we feel that way?! It is terrifying! And when you're on that tight a budget you can't create a savings safety net for yourself! What if the job doesn't work out? You're also doing a thing a lot of govt people do in assuming just because the income increases when people are working that means they're "better off in work" WITHOUT taking into account properly :

What they lose (not just in terms of income but also associated issues like prescription costs, if a claimant is in poor health/has a chronic condition and on a lot of meds that aren't covered by the 'free meds for life threatening conditions' rule then how are they supposed to afford them? What if they are a spectacle wearer? Need a hearing aid? Need mobility aids? What about childcare or elder care? Transport costs, clothes for work if there's a dress code (or even just so you don't feel a scruff bag!), money for lunches if there's nowhere to store a packed lunch safely? "Better off in work" calculations rarely take all these kind of things into consideration !

some (not all) is peoples expectations of what they think they should get.

Or maybe they know what their minimum outgoings are/will be and know they couldn't AFFORD to do x job?

At which point you request a hardship payment.

Which they can and often do reject

None of these currently seemingly very available jobs will suit family circumstances or those with a home and bills easily at all. It’s disingenuous to suggest they do and additional sanctioning is just adding stress and misery and won’t resolve it.

Exactly! Basically her parents are prob supporting her at least to a minimal degree?

Same goes for trying to rent a house/flat. Everything has made made so difficult that it's almost impossible to get ahead in life.

Yep

D1nOFOaurus

This was a good example of someone willing to work.

No it's an example of a DESPERATELY POOR Parent having to leave their child to be raised by grandparents!

Secondly, I know someone who recruits & they receive lots of applications & organise the interviews. However, people don't always turn up for the interview or don't want the hours. It is very frustrating, because it takes a long time to fill the vacancies

And part of WHY is because they are getting people applying who likely CAN'T Do the job, possibly CAN'T even attend the interview is policies like this!

I have worked in lots of different industries & my current job involves a mixture of days & nights. I have also done zero hours in the past.

And? This only means YOU are able to do this job - doesn't mean everyone is!! Presumably from that you are physically fit and healthy, have no caring responsibilities or they can be cared for by others while you're working, that you are able to manage transport to and from work etc etc etc

The economy is not sustainable with high unemployment

You're right! But you are woefully ill informed as to WHY we have such high unemployment

I've walked or cycled to work, when I had no transport

Have you walked/cycled 30+ miles each way?

I've worked 3 different jobs at once

Then you've clearly not had a zero hours contract that BARS you from working for other employers even if that employer isn't offering you many hours!

FluffyUnicorn1

you need to read the thread! Eg Posters with visual impairment told to apply for parking attendant jobs. The nurse/supermarket scenario you posit - the supermarket would reject them for being overqualified! My degrees are in English and healthcare I've been told to apply for jobs requiring phd's in scientific disciplines I have NO knowledge of!

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche

My daughter is trying to recruit at the moment.

The job centre send her details of candidates and she contacts them.

They sound very enthusiastic on the phone and get invited for interview but they don't turn up.

Is this the 'candidate's' evidence that they are applying for jobs?

I think you have to provide evidence you've applied for 3 jobs a week. A lot of people send CV's via Indeed/ jobcentre etc. Confirmation email goes out and that's your evidence.

"I have worked in lots of different industries & my current job involves a mixture of days & nights. I have also done zero hours in the past.

And? This only means YOU are able to do this job - doesn't mean everyone is!! Presumably from that you are physically fit and healthy, have no caring responsibilities or they can be cared for by others while you're working, that you are able to manage transport to and from work etc etc etc"

No woman would want to accept a night job or one around traveling to or from work late at night or in the early hours of the morning, its dangerous.

its about saying that you need to work to have an income coming in

That's how it appears on the surface - you HAVE to dig deeper and listen to those of us who know how it works in reality!

Graphista unfortunately while the country is being run by people who haven't had a single days struggle in their life, nothing will ever change.

Agreed!

We're also being run by people who've never done a days bloody GRAFT in their lives!

And I'm not even just talking about tories here! The shadow cabinet there's also a dearth of true working class people.

I quickly realised when I became a single parent that the only job I could do that fits around my kids without it costing me an arm and a leg in childcare or transport costs was self employment.

This is the stage I'm at! Almost 50, disabled, mentally ill but could do a desk job/wfh IF someone would give me a chance! But they won't so I'm best off going self employed route

You're dead on re the grandparents/person who came to uk to work too.

This change is being done to remove people from the unemployment figures/save money

Yep

The tories are AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN ideologically opposed to any kind of welfare state inc having an nhs. They would rather we didn't have it at all. They consider being poor a character failure and being sick being weak!

Do people actually realise that lots of other countries don't even have benefits enough to survive?

that doesn't make it right!

there was a 24 year old girl with a kid, who only worked 16 hours a week so they don't cut her benefits.

That makes the system wrong - not her! It means she knows she can't afford to live on what she would be getting if she worked more hours. It's the system that needs to change to be properly flexible!

Something we were promised would happen with UC - yet UC can't even cope with people paid weekly or 4 weekly or if there's a Y in the month!

And of course you know the exact factual details of a woman you clearly barely know!

you can keep looking. Just don't ask for the benefits, thats all.

So how do the bills get paid then?!

Plus - you have a category of people who just don't want to work full stop. And they never will.

Even this govts own figs show this is EXTREMELY rare!

Nowadays neither of those jobs would give you set hours and both would expect full flexibility within the same timescales. If you turn one down you get blacklisted for more shifts. Working multiple jobs was easier when you could juggle different contracted hours.

Exactly plus the contracts now have clauses barring people from working for other employers - even if the contracted employer isn't giving them shifts! You're not ALLOWED to work for more than one person

That was me. I worked FT and after all childcare, transport and meals, was left with no more pennies than if I'd been on benefits.

Lots find they are not only no better off but significantly worse off and trapped by the leaving a job "voluntarily" penalty. They end up in debt - sometimes to dodgy types as reputable ones won't lend to them!

tax payers are subsiding businesses.

The problem is too many don't understand that this is what's ACTUALLY happening

This is where legislation is needed and that is governments job

It's worse than that - some of the stuff employers are doing we used to have laws stopping them treating employees that way and the tories have abolished them

And how would single parents or those with elder care responsibilities or shitty local public transport manage shifts outside "office hours"?

what the economy cant sustain is poverty caused by such tight fisted greed.

True

It would be much better for the DWP to help people find secure, suitable, long term work than just force people to take the next zero hours, minimum wage shite that will have the government propping up their wages with benefits/ back in the dole queue in a few weeks. It's short term thinking.

Absolutely

And I'm old enough to remember job centre helping you find jobs, having local connections and knowing when a vacancy was forthcoming, and even refusing ads by dodgy employers!

and its not state help, its social security, the state works for us, thats how its meant to be, thats how its written up.

Hear hear

Also I am not complaining about UC being cut, because I am not claiming any.

Then frankly you don't know what you're talking about!

RaininSummer • I very much doubt it's the reporting at fault!

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee

No we're not talking as if EVERYONE is a single mum etc we're saying such measures will unfairly punish the ones for whom there ARE limitations on what jobs they can do

As to the jobs available, a huge number of shops/restaurants are advertising vacancies, as soon as someone recommends a cleaner on Nextdoor they have 10+ people saying they are looking for a good cleaner (£12/h), same for handymen.

Eg I got one COULD NOT do any of those jobs - I have done some of them in the past when I was younger and fitter but couldn't do them now.

You're talking about different issues.

Agreed!

Monitoring of self employment, taxes etc needs to be MUCH better for a number of reasons.

what difference does it make if they work or not

cos it's totally off topic!

I loathed Thatcher with a passion, but I'm coming to the conclusion that this lot, and their devoted supporters, must be a bunch of aliens, they seem to hate the rest of humanity so much.

Yep!

All the more reason to stop attacking the unemployed and to focus of corporate/business fraud then.

Yep!

Oldsu I think BringBackThinEyebrows point on cvs wasn't that they shouldn't receive such training but that this is not enough training. Less/un ethical employers take the free/cheap labour such schemes provide but don't actually provide enough support/training for those employees participating to find a permanent full time role afterwards

but at a rate which is currently higher than the new living wage coming into force in April, of course they may still have to claim UC,

Therefore it's not REALLY a living wage! It's a minimum wage don't fall for Tory "rebranding"

I've worked in hospitality and also care, and have 25 years experience between the two, with a very brief foray into retail.
If I had a penny for the words "The needs of the business" I wouldn't ever need to work again and nor would my family!
Because that's what everything is based on, and actually what I found is that they don't mean the needs of the business, they mean the needs of the profit margin to be bigger and bigger.

When I worked in hospitality I saw so many people treated badly, 0 hours contracts, sent home or cancelled with very little notice for a scheduled shift, yet expected to turn up with a moments notice for shifts and penalised if they for example, dared not to answer their phone immediately, or had arranged something else that day.
Now in busy times, casual staff are important as the custom in hospitality fluctuates, but there should be a permanent back bone of competent staff to run the show, casual work also suits some people and they aren't relying on the income, it's a bit extra for them.
The problem is that increasingly, companies are relying on casual staff to run the show and less and less willing to employ people they need on proper terms. There's no investment in training, so standards of service fall, while these companies promise to deliver the moon on a stick to their customers, and then blame their staff when that doesn't happen because they haven't invested in training.

Customer expectations are driving companies to want to give better service than their competitors, as long as it doesn't cost them profit to do so, the adage "Speculate to accumulate" just doesn't seem to apply to staff and training. We're constantly seeing how people think service is shit, how they feel let down - and the blame (and nastiness) is usually directed at the person on the floor that they dealt with, win win for the company, money in the bank and no hard time for them!
So they advertise for experienced staff, because they don't want to train them, yet want to pay nmw to experienced staff too.
We like to say that hospitality, retail and care are low skilled, in fact to do them properly and effectively, they require a lot of skills, does anyone actually think "Ah well, I got shit service because it's from a low skilled worker" or do they complain anyway and expect their pound of flesh?
Can't have it both ways, insist that people in these jobs are low skilled and therefore not worth paying a decent wage, yet demand top notch service from them. Either invest in the workforce to provide the service or accept lower standards.

I recently changed jobs within the care sector and the highest hourly contract I was offered was 30 hours, full time is 37.5 or 40, and I only got offered two contracts that weren't zero hour, care homes are desperate for staff (I am regularly working 15-25 hours overtime a week) yet won't give full time contracts. They won't pay more for experience or qualifications (I am nvq 3 and have other relevant qualifications like meds yet get nmw in line with someone who has none of those things) yet expect the experienced staff to train the inexperienced ones, hold the shift together and take the responsibility.
They also are resistant to training their staff properly (you can't learn how to care properly watching a bloody dvd and answering a few questions) and to investing in their workforce, and bigger than that, the government is resistant to investing in a workforce we need.

I am lucky that now I have no childcare responsibility, I'm actually easier to exploit for my employer and because I need the money that 50/60 hour weeks bring to be able to afford luxuries like heating my home and having shoes on my feet.
I still barely earn above what you're entitled to on benefits "The amount the law says you need to live on" apparently.
But the problem there isn't that benefits are generous or too much, it's that wages are too low, and the cost of living too high. And that's backed up by the government having to even have in work benefits for people that work full time.

Benefits should be for those who aren't currently in receipt of a wage, be that for job loss, illness, disability or caring responsibility and be it short or long term, but they've evolved to be support for people working full time as well as not working at all.
I think sanctions are needed in some form, because there's always an element of people who will try to take the piss (government, I'm looking at you!) and get money for the least amount of effort possible, but, we're being led to believe these people are in abundance, that they're everywhere, that they're the reason that there's no money when I don't think that's really true, I think the majority of welfare support goes on pensions (limited capacity for work) and then in work benefits (I will try to find the source I read this on) and so people who have no experience of claiming or living on benefits support sanctions that are damaging not only to the individual, but to wider society.

Just plonking myself here

@ItsCoachBombay I hope she gets something more relevant to her skillset soon. I knew a few people who took delivery driving roles and warehouse work to get through covid and thankfully they're getting back into their industries.

@Oldsu Did you not read my post? I didn't suggest your husband's company is replacing existing workers or only recruiting Kickstart participants. I know about the scheme hence I know:
-Employers get £1500 per placement
-The government fund up to 25 hours per week for 6 months, hence 25 government-funded hours
-Many participants earn so little that they still rely on Universal Credit payments
-The majority of roles are 'entry level' jobs. It shouldn't take a scheme to obtain those jobs.

There are many ways young people can already get support with their CV. School, college, National Careers Service, job clubs, plenty of advice online and probably organisations the Jobcentre can refer them to.

Training for a job is a given, so the only perk is participants get help with their CV. Meanwhile, your husband's ethical company is cashing in (£1500) on employees they don't have to pay (at least anything below 25 hours). Who is really benefiting?

9 x £1500= £13,500 and they company's patting itself on the back for providing a bit of help with 9 CVs

Anyone else seeing those job ads and translating into "reality"?

Eg

This role is focused on business and lead generation. = loo breaks are timed, we even think you're slacking we'll be down on you like a ton of bricks

Confident personality willing and able to take a ton of verbal abuse

Loves working to targets will dock your pay if you don't meet them

a bit of a perfectionist pay docked for minor errors even while training

willing to muck-in willing to be treated like a dogsbody

I've done a job similar to this one, I was fine with it but I wouldn't do it again. Pay was based on piece work rates, if another employee couldn't keep up and you got behind you'd get pay docked too!

I also tell them no do it now not when you have run out of money because by then you will be fucked as they take months to process the claim/start giving you any money.

Yep I do the same. Some accept I know what I'm on about and do it, some are unsure but do it out of caution, some have ignored me and then I've heard a rant when things get desperate! The latter sometimes forget I advised them to do this and have a go at me for not telling them!

the problem there isn't that benefits are generous or too much, it's that wages are too low, and the cost of living too high. And that's backed up by the government having to even have in work benefits for people that work full time
^This 100%

when I worked it was to targets, i found out after a while that if you regularly exceed the targets they upped the target level.

there was never any carrot only stick, so after a few months everyone there learned to pay attention to their targets and to work within them so they didnt get increased anymore.

TBH it was an easy job after that, used to give my work near the end of the week to the noobs who hadn't met their targets yet, to make sure we were all in the safe zone.

hardly a productive idea of the company, we would have done more work without the targets.

@Graphista honestly, according to what you write - we are all doomed and shouldn't even try to do better, because no matter how to approach the subject - there is always a reason why any given person can't work. Of course there are genuine severe cases when people can't work, and they need to be supported - but it ultimately comes down to your own psychology and moral principles. How is responsible for your life and your loved ones? To me - I am responsible, I make my own choices, and I will do everything I physically can to provide for my family. I will not be blaming the government/ the public / the world for my mistakes. No one forces you to live in places that are too rural to travel to work from. No one forces you to have too many children who require constant childcare so you can't go back to work. People move countries looking for better life, I know I did - so I refuse to believe that someone born in this country, speaking perfect English, having British passport can't sort out their life and get a job that pays enough to stop claiming benefits. I do however believe that if you are born in the country when you are handed enough cash that you don't have to work - some people will always find an excuse not to. Just look at the other post about benefit fraud, where the OP is trying to figure out whether she will get caught or not.