Stupid UC changes

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

So now you have 4 weeks to get a job you could actually do - then you just have to apply for anything/everything.

Every time we have a thread on here about recruitment, the HR wonks pop up and complain about all the "dross" applications from people not qualified for their wonderful opportunities - how will this help?

Rather than punishing people for lack of suitable vacancies it is time the goverment tried to help employers to offer more and better jobs.

I agree sanctions don't work. They never have. The narrative of the workshy scrounger has been touted in the media to keep the 'upstanding tax payers' enraged. For every one story in the daily fail (eg the guy with 14 kids, a crocodile and head to toe tattoos) there's thousands of people genuinely in need of UC and trying to get by and find work but they don't get the clicks.

a better programme for helping people find employment or training would be a start. Not the work coaches as it is now, but people who can actually work with an individual and match them to relevant training (which would need funding) or jobs and help them apply rather than sending everyone on basic literacy courses and telling them to apply for anything.

As with everything though, it costs money and doesn't benefit the 'right' people so that money won't be found. There are some schemes and charities that offer this, but they can only do so much.

Yes there are lots of vacancies right now, but it's not as simple as just shoving anyone into it. Care work isn't suitable for someone who doesn't want to do it, professional or skilled work isn't suitable for someone without the skills for it, an entry level job isn't suitable for someone highly qualified and so on.

I don't know if it's the governments job to create the jobs, but there is definitely more they can do to help people looking for work and legislate for a real living wage, employees rights and better working conditions.

Social security "sanctions" are a human rights abuse. Just like workhouses were.

@draramallama

People with morals don't support social security "sanctions" deliberately impoverishing and punishing people for facing difficulties.

This means people could be "sanctioned" before they even receive their first payment. It traps people in a cycle of crap unstable jobs instead of being able to improve their circumstances.

This policy was announced today as part of a continuing strategy of redirecting people's anger towards those at the bottom rung of society rather than the immoral criminals in government.

It's abhorrent and immoral and does absolutely nothing to help anyone.

100% this.

Boris needs to redirect attention away from him.

Here it is.

I've only skim read but many of the jobs available are 0 hours and aren't for when there is childcare available.

To claim unemployment benefit (jobseekers, not UC) my partner had to chase many times to even get his claim processed. It took weeks just for someone to get back to the application, the application couldn’t be approved until they spoke with him but no-one got in contact. The application was not backdated you when he first claimed, but only paid from when it was approved. He never heard anything again - no help was offered, no monitoring, no advice on finding work - luckily he had a severance payment and used some of this pay bills and paid for help setting up a business, but I was shocked that there was no support.

As a whole I think that if you need a job you will take most jobs whether those be in bars or supermarkets until you can find what it is you ultimately want to get back into.

Bars and supermarkets that require you to be “fully flexible” on a 4 or 8 hour contract. Which for a lot of people just isn’t possible. one of my DC has SEN which mean he needs an adult to supervise him at all times but only qualifies for low rate care element of DLA. I’m a lone parent so there is no other adult to look after him. I’m still obligated to work for 35 hours a week. Which is fine if I can find those 35 hours a week to fit in Monday - Friday 8-5 (when he is at school) but supermarkets and bars want you to be available early mornings, late evenings and weekends too. I simply can’t take those jobs.

@RogerDodger

As a whole I think that if you need a job you will take most jobs whether those be in bars or supermarkets until you can find what it is you ultimately want to get back into.

Bars and supermarkets that require you to be “fully flexible” on a 4 or 8 hour contract. Which for a lot of people just isn’t possible. one of my DC has SEN which mean he needs an adult to supervise him at all times but only qualifies for low rate care element of DLA. I’m a lone parent so there is no other adult to look after him. I’m still obligated to work for 35 hours a week. Which is fine if I can find those 35 hours a week to fit in Monday - Friday 8-5 (when he is at school) but supermarkets and bars want you to be available early mornings, late evenings and weekends too. I simply can’t take those jobs.

@RogerDodger some people are completely oblivious to how difficult it is to find work that fits around children when you're a single parent. I hope they never find themselves in that situation, but christ would it be an eye opener to them if they did.

I'm sick to death of hearing people say take any job
Okay so if you were offered a zero hours minimum wage job would you take it? No most people won't.
Not because they are lazy scroungers but because you can't live on 2 hours work a week on minimum wage. IMO the minimum wage needs to increase a lot and training opportunities need to be made available for all
The lots of jobs argument might be true but it's care work (which shouldn't be used as a stop gap but because you actually love the job) or it's retail which is shit pay and conditions.
No wonder people don't want to do it.
Anyone who says it's a job be grateful needs to go and work in these places. I have done care work and still work in retail and they are by far hardest jobs I've ever had.
It's disgusting to cut people's benefits and say tough. Do we want really want families starving and freezing? (Obviously Boris does but I mean apart from him).

Totally @KurtWilde. When my son was smaller I used to have to bring him to work with me during school holidays as he couldn’t attend normal summer schemes. As he grew he didn’t want to sit and be bored while I worked so I just had to stop working when he was off school. I was self employed so I could make this choice but financially it was awful!

@Rosebel

I'm sick to death of hearing people say take any job Okay so if you were offered a zero hours minimum wage job would you take it? No most people won't. Not because they are lazy scroungers but because you can't live on 2 hours work a week on minimum wage. IMO the minimum wage needs to increase a lot and training opportunities need to be made available for all The lots of jobs argument might be true but it's care work (which shouldn't be used as a stop gap but because you actually love the job) or it's retail which is shit pay and conditions. No wonder people don't want to do it. Anyone who says it's a job be grateful needs to go and work in these places. I have done care work and still work in retail and they are by far hardest jobs I've ever had. It's disgusting to cut people's benefits and say tough. Do we want really want families starving and freezing? (Obviously Boris does but I mean apart from him).

But you don't just live on that UC tops your wage up so you're better off in work.

Personally I think zero hours contracts should be illegal but unfortunately I don't see that happening

I think some vacancies expect far too much. 15 and 16 year olds looking for part time work are made to jump through hoops - assessments, 3 hour online workshops, 3 different interviews, presentations etc etc just to fucking work part time. They can’t get experience cos they don’t have any cos they can’t get a job cos they can’t get through the bloody over indulgent interview / assessment/ group work interviews. I understand that some people claiming job seekers have completely outlandish and unrealistic goals in terms of the work they will do /look for ( I have years of experience in this area) and I think there comes a point where those expectations have to be managed as they will never come to fruition. But if employers treat every single vacancy like it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity to become the next mission impossible, then what chance do people have? I’ve known people DESPERATE for work, applying for everything they come across, qualifies or not, and still can’t get anywhere.

As I mentioned before - independent studies have shown benefit sanctions don't work.
Initiatives like this are political, not practical, they are just playing to the narrative of "workshy scroungers" - simplistic sloganising for the hard of thinking.

You're right that benefit sanctions don't work and should be illegal tbh. Maybe I've missed the point but how will the job centre know if you haven't applied for a CEO post that you saw? As long as you're doing the work related activities and making note of them.

I'm so terrified of losing my job
I think they're trying to get rid of me at mine. I guess you'd call it manage me out?
I've worked there for years
But it's a legitimate concern
And I'm terrified
It's just me and my child and I can't take anything as I don't have another adult here
I'm so scared

Sanctions sound like detention or lines, it’s removing your entire income for 14 days or 28 up to 96 days. Even in workhouse you got gruel after a days work. You still need to be fulfilling all your job seeking requirements as sanction applies for past weeks “failings”.

What it said was "in your preferred sector" after that you need to apply for anything you're capable of doing.

Doesn't mean to say that if you apply for these crap jobs that you don't want to do that you'll actually get one.

@PearlclutchersInc

What it said was "in your preferred sector" after that you need to apply for anything you're capable of doing.

Doesn't mean to say that if you apply for these crap jobs that you don't want to do that you'll actually get one.

Indeed - so it's fucking pointless.

Yeah turns out Boris announcement yesterday about new initiative to get people back into work is simply - make them take any job available.

Whilst I can understand the idea that you should earn a living. It's too simplistic.

How does someone with kids take any job without childcare?

How does someone on a limited public transport link take a job with any hours?

There needs to be some middle ground.

I think they are saying 'take a job as a supermarket driver or admin while looking for the right job for you.'

In 2020 after 30 years in tech marketing I found myself furloughed and then out of work. No conferences, no need for a conference organiser. After months searching, during which I applied for 70 jobs, I took a public sector admin role on 1/2 normal salary. I was lucky. I worked 1 day, went home and found I had been offered a great job so I switched. But at least I was willing to give it a go.
And my mortgage needed paying. No one was going to pay it for me which focuses the mind somewhat.

I am JSA, jobs dont want to employ people with limited available hours (i.e have kids) regardless of skills, they still think the company owns the employee and they should be available 24/7, they need to change.

also 90% of the jobs advertised by the job centre are this kickstarter scam I dont know what the incentive is to the companies to sign up for it but its totally ageist as it means tonnes of entry level vacancies are locking out everyone over the age of 24.

This is the problem when you have millionaires and billionaires making decisions about lives that are totally unrelatabe to them. I used to work on the database that underpins the benefits system in this country (it's huge) and this change will necessitate a massive amount of work and cost just to update the system. Business analysts, developers, testers, architects, DWP stakeholders etc etc all need paying and this is a LARGE piece of work. I couldn't stomach the job in the end because none of it was about doing the right thing for the 'end users', it was all about manipulating statistics for political point scoring.

@CaMePlaitPas

It's so lazy and dull to say "there's loads of jobs round at the moment". People need to earn living wages, people need security, people need flexibility. These things aren't achieved because you might have seen that Gregg's were hiring on the way to work this morning.

Of course it's the government's job to ensure quality jobs for it's citizens. Jesus, what low expectations you have if you believe otherwise. We've been so let down by this absolute sham of a government that we've become glutton for punishment. Still, as long as Boris has got some nice wallpaper up I guess that's the main thing.

My friend works in a Greggs. They constantly chop and change her hours. UC are at her to up her hours all the time. She'd love to. Where she lives there are very few jobs and she doesn't drive. She'd also love to drive but can't afford to learn.

@VelvetChairGirl

I am JSA, jobs dont want to employ people with limited available hours (i.e have kids) regardless of skills, they still think the company owns the employee and they should be available 24/7, they need to change.

also 90% of the jobs advertised by the job centre are this kickstarter scam I dont know what the incentive is to the companies to sign up for it but its totally ageist as it means tonnes of entry level vacancies are locking out everyone over the age of 24.

I think you get workers for free then let them go and get new trainee.

@ThanksIGotItInMorrisons

I think some vacancies expect far too much. 15 and 16 year olds looking for part time work are made to jump through hoops - assessments, 3 hour online workshops, 3 different interviews, presentations etc etc just to fucking work part time. They can’t get experience cos they don’t have any cos they can’t get a job cos they can’t get through the bloody over indulgent interview / assessment/ group work interviews. I understand that some people claiming job seekers have completely outlandish and unrealistic goals in terms of the work they will do /look for ( I have years of experience in this area) and I think there comes a point where those expectations have to be managed as they will never come to fruition. But if employers treat every single vacancy like it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity to become the next mission impossible, then what chance do people have? I’ve known people DESPERATE for work, applying for everything they come across, qualifies or not, and still can’t get anywhere.

I work in a huge stadium. We can never get enough casual waiting staff. So my 16 year old applied via the agency we use. I thought they would bite his hand off. Nope, as you say its a 3 stage process just to hand over pre-poured pints.

@nansbigpants

Part of the problem is that people looking for jobs don't have the right skills for the jobs available- so I think more training opportunities and support for people retraining would be more helpful than just punishing people by cutting benefits.

The BBC article on this mentions that job seekers will get more time with a 'work coach'. Unless things have changed a lot over the last few years this is pointless. I experienced having to claim benefits when I unexpectedly lost my job and had no savings and 2 young children. I was willing to take just about anything that was feasible with the constraints of available childcare times (so not night shift etc) but despite being highly qualified for my previous (very niche) job I was turned down for numerous jobs because other applicants had more relevant experience. The only training on offer was aimed at people who needed help with basic literacy/numeracy/computer skills and my work coach sessions consisted a member of staff reading their list of vacancies with me and asking which I thought I could do (on every occasion I had already applied for anything vaguely sensible). When I suggested voluntary work or a training course not provided by them I was warned that I might not qualify as 'available for work' and may have benefits cut. On one occasion I got quite upset with the situation and my 'coach' basically told me I should think myself lucky as she'd love a bit of time off like I had, but had already used all her holiday allowance going to Australia earlier in the year.

I started signing on at the start of 2017, had plenty of interviews but it all goes back to the same thing, I have to take my SEN son to school in the morning and pick him up in the afternoon, I cant do early mornings or after 3pm.

the work coaches just told me not to worry about it and concentrate on looking after my son and hopefully he will get more independent in time so I can increase my available hours.

like you I was warned off doing any further education or anything outside of their mandated training/work experience/job search classes as doing anything off my own back that would eat into the time I had available to look for work would be considered making myself unavailable to work and I could be sanctioned.

if you tell the job centre you are looking for a job 9 to 5 they expect you to use that time 9 to 5 to look for work, not do anything else

@MintJulia

I think they are saying 'take a job as a supermarket driver or admin while looking for the right job for you.'

In 2020 after 30 years in tech marketing I found myself furloughed and then out of work. No conferences, no need for a conference organiser. After months searching, during which I applied for 70 jobs, I took a public sector admin role on 1/2 normal salary. I was lucky. I worked 1 day, went home and found I had been offered a great job so I switched. But at least I was willing to give it a go.
And my mortgage needed paying. No one was going to pay it for me which focuses the mind somewhat.

And as I mentioned - after many years as an IT contractor and IT systems worker I ran out of luck/work during Covid.

I applied to Tesco several times and was rejected.

I was willing and able to work any/all hours, physically fit etc.

It's really not that easy to 'take a job as a supermarket driver or admin while looking for the right job for you.'

I started the application process for a local council job but the form didn't allow for self employment and no-one could help me.