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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stupid UC changes

230 replies

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 27/01/2022 08:36

So now you have 4 weeks to get a job you could actually do - then you just have to apply for anything/everything.

Every time we have a thread on here about recruitment, the HR wonks pop up and complain about all the "dross" applications from people not qualified for their wonderful opportunities - how will this help?

Rather than punishing people for lack of suitable vacancies it is time the goverment tried to help employers to offer more and better jobs.

OP posts:
purpleme12 · 28/01/2022 00:22

@Tealightsandd

I remember the days when people were trained on the job.

I had a Saturday retail job as a teen. Literally walked in whilst shopping - asked if they had any work going. The manager told me to turn up that Saturday to start working. Just like that.

Later as an office junior temp, I was sent into assignments without any previous experience. Like all the other office juniors and temps, I learnt on the job. Quickly picked it up - and if anybody couldn't get to grips they simply found more suitable alternative work, whilst the employer immediately got in a replacement.

Much simpler and better approach.

I wish this was the case too I don't understand how you're supposed to get your foot in the door for a lot of jobs if you can't get trained in the job if you don't have experience
Oldsu · 28/01/2022 00:36

@Akire kick start does not work like that, my husbands company uses the scheme and I have seen the criteria, first of all the vacancy can only exist if you take people on the scheme, in other words it cant be a planned vacancy you cant replace an existing worker or cut someone's hours in order to take someone from the scheme, you have to commit to training and mentoring the candidate including helping with CV writing and giving access to training like e learning, my DH company had 9 on the scheme 7 got full time jobs at more than the living wage

oviraptor21 · 28/01/2022 00:47

if job centre dotn think you have tried enough can legally withdrawal all Income above your rent. Fab

At which point you request a hardship payment.

Oldsu · 28/01/2022 01:04

@Cheekypeach

Hmmm.

If I’m being honest I don’t see any reason for somebody on UC to turn down a job they are capable of doing. I mean, why wouldn’t they take it? Unless I’m missing something?

Because a lot of them are scared to, they have always had the safety net of benefits where they get the same money without having to do much for it, I advise on several benefit boards on FB mainly to help older people but I see where people put up their journals showing what they get, the most common question is how many hours will I be made to work and still get my benefits , a lot are convinced if they work the DWP takes their wages, it takes a lot to convince them that they keep their wages but get less benefits and TBH that's the biggest complaint, although a lot will get a work allowance so they can earn a certain amount without their benefits being affected, most do see their benefits decreased when they work and they don't see why they should work just to get the same amount of money that they would have got in benefits, the people who know benefits on these boards usually do a calculation for them or point them in the direction of someone who can help but once they see financially they are not much better off by working they make it clear they don't want to do it, there is a lot of anger on these boards some (not all) is peoples expectations of what they think they should get.
BringBackThinEyebrows · 28/01/2022 06:37

@Oldsu so you'll know that your husband's workplace received £1500 for every Kickstart employee they took on, while getting 25 hours government-funded labour each week and that young person earns so little they still have to receive Universal Credit.

Kickstart roles could easily be entry level roles (warehouse, admin, cleaner, support worker etc.). A Kickstart placement lasts 6 months so it doesn't guarantee secure employment. If 'help with a CV' and 'training' are the benefits for Kickstart participants, that's depressing. Adequate training should be provided as standard for all roles.

Parsley1234 · 28/01/2022 06:43

@Oldsu I was a KS advisor good for your husbands company a lot we’re not fit for purpose the jobs were a joke
@BringBackThinEyebrows unless they went through a gateway parasite who took half or even totally the fee

VelvetChairGirl · 28/01/2022 07:15

[quote gogohm]@CaMePlaitPas

My dp has had no applications for a job paying £38k plus bonus (nor the other t2 vacancies bar one 17 year old with no qualifications who didn't even proof read her cv!) It's no just poorly paid work that's struggling to recruit.

He needs someone willing to travel and needs to be in the office because working from home didn't work, that seems to be the issue [/quote]
And what is the job exactly, stating the salary is rather pointless without also stating the job description and person specification.

I certainly doubt you would accept anyone with a salary that high.

CaMePlaitPas · 28/01/2022 07:54

@gogohm

Let us know what the role is! I'm currently looking for a job and would be more than happy to land a 38K a year role.

MsJinks · 28/01/2022 08:14

A family member lost her preferred hospitality role in lockdown. She has since found 4 jobs as she will do most things (not care) which have also ended, but she always gets another quickly and does well. Credit to her, and it could suggest anecdotally that there are many jobs out there if you want them. BUT the jobs are fixed term, temporary, you can go into work and be told there’s not enough work today so go home, 10 hours one week and 50 the next. She lives with parents which resolves the pressure of bills, she has no children/other responsibilities, so no problems with shifts. No one with their own home to maintain can be ok in this type of scenario it would be incredibly stressful. UC will top up if you’re eligible but it runs behind your wages so that’s no good when you need to eat that week, you can’t wait a bit.
Even care, whilst hours are there you’re often overrunning on hours, needing to fit training in outside working hours, rotas change last minute. Similar in many hospitality roles as well.
None of these currently seemingly very available jobs will suit family circumstances or those with a home and bills easily at all. It’s disingenuous to suggest they do and additional sanctioning is just adding stress and misery and won’t resolve it.

KurtWilde · 28/01/2022 09:51

I had a Saturday retail job as a teen. Literally walked in whilst shopping - asked if they had any work going. The manager told me to turn up that Saturday to start working. Just like that.

That's roughly how I got my first job as a teen, only I saw an advert in the window of Sunwin House. Walked in, found the manager, told him I'd like to apply. I started the following Monday.

Same when I was at college. I was in a nightclub, I overheard one of the bar staff saying someone had blobbed one too many times and would be sacked next time they came in. Left them my number. Turned out they didn't go in again at all and a week later I had a job in a nightclub. Trained on the job.

It's so hard for young people to get a foot in the door these days without experience, references, personal statements, not to mention some of the ridiculous things asked on application forms. When I was helping my older DC with CVs and applications etc it was a real eye opener.

Same goes for trying to rent a house/flat. Everything has made made so difficult that it's almost impossible to get ahead in life.

Graphista · 28/01/2022 11:07

I thought people would do this anyway, at a time with lots of vacancies it should be normal to find a stop gap

Those that CAN do take stop gap jobs but it's a huge risk.

Not least because stopping and starting...or even just "adjusting" benefits takes weeks sometimes months!

It's SUPPOSED to all happen smoothly it never does!

back payments mean nothing when the landlord is banging at the door

Exactly

That was in the days before you were sanctioned for leaving a job

This has NEVER been true since the inception of the welfare state! It's always been the case that you wouldn't get anything for a set period if you were sacked for cause or left "voluntarily" I put in quote marks as the definition of voluntarily has changed over time. At points "voluntarily" has also included if you left because the bus route you used to get to work vanished, or your childcare was no longer available or your boss was a shitty bully!

If I’m being honest I don’t see any reason for somebody on UC to turn down a job they are capable of doing. I mean, why wouldn’t they take it? Unless I’m missing something?

Again the problem is with the definition of "capable of doing"

I've had work coaches tell me a 2.5 hour commute both ways is acceptable even when this was a route/setup that would likely mean my often being late/unable to get home, jobs where the hours meant working outside available childcare hours "can't your mum have her" er...well considering she's almost 300 miles away no! Jobs where I'd need to be on my feet all day despite the disability, jobs I didn't have the basic qualifications or experience for...

It's bullshit!

It’s only ever a small number who stay on benefits longer than this

But this info doesn't make the news cycle does it?

And you're right also a pita and money wasting for employers too. As op says stupid!

Parsley1234 this govt is incompetent and corrupt in SO many ways!

Plus if you have family and get low wage job you still be getting UC top up pay your rent and bills. But no outrage there about “draining the system”. Companies don’t pay a living wage and society is fine with that. Only one benefit claimed is seen as bad the other is fine as working

Exactly! And that goes back to the most recent tax credit system which was never about helping working people but indirectly subsidising businesses! And very often businesses that didn't NEED subsidies!

A true living wage as the nmw needs to be introduced - and not only for this reason. It would also stimulate the economy because as loads of research shows the people on lower incomes when they have free money spend it! They don't hoard it like the rich do!

The statutory working conditions are abysmal in this country.

And in the last 10 years have been getting worse and worse

The way employees are being treated and the lack of rights at the moment is shameful!

Not just on the govt on employers too because even if good treatment of employees isn't in legislation there's nothing stopping employers being good employers by choice!

Indeed it's very short sighted not to be as again many studies show this benefits business too. A happy, well treated workforce is always more productive and more loyal.

KurtWilde well said

ScottishNames thank you

Because all this affects women and mothers more than any other sector of the community.

Absolutely

LakieLady I've long since given up trying to get through to someone with half a brain myself I use my local welfare rights office but you're right even they're having trouble getting resolutions now! I've a situation ongoing since about 3 months ago. We've chased and chased and chased and still no resolution at this point.

I agree. A job is a job. No it might not be your ideal job but it's still paying the bills!

You can't even be bothered to read a thread properly yet you're calling others lazy?

Lazy feckless work shy themselves

Yep

KingstonMumOf1 I take it your post also means you weren't told about help with childcare or any other help you may have been eligible for

This is another issue I've learned since and when I first claimed almost 20 years ago.

Unless you ALREADY KNOW what you are eligible for and know to request the means to apply for it they won't tell you!

When I first went in to get the forms (still paper applications at this point) I was lied to and they refused to give me the forms.

The lie?

They said I wasn't eligible to even attempt a claim because my soon to be ex was in the army! I was told ex forces dependents weren't eligible for benefits at all

TOTAL BULLSHIT and I knew it was but this woman plain refused to give me the forms!

I walked away that day but returned the next and got the forms from a different person.

But even then just literally gave me the form, no advice, no guidance at all and this also meant that I didn't know about another form I needed to have and complete.

This was when I had just split from ex and was claiming as a single mother but I was job hunting too.

Several years later when I was claiming as a disabled person that was a whole other level of obstruction!

Those who've never claimed or worked in the system haven't a bloody clue just how appalling it is!

LolaMento if we didn't have a welfare system at all crime would be rife and people would be dying in the streets even more than now

We're also not rushing into having kids. Indeed mostly and problematically the opposite! British women are often leaving it too late to conceive and then needing help with conception and pregnancy and this can also lead to birthing children who aren't totally healthy - this also costs the state money!

XenoBitch I'm on legacy benefits for now I'm dreading being moved onto UC

ShirleyBadass many of those things you mentioned aren't available everywhere. I live in one of the most deprived areas in the country, our "high street" is on futile life support, our college has been amputated to the point it is now just a torso, employers aren't interested in apprenticeships etc

I hold 2 degrees I can write a bloody CV and even the so called experts have said there's nothing more they can advise me there.

My whole life if I made it to interview stage I was always offered the job. No problem with interviews.

What's screwed me are the things I cannot change! Mainly being disabled!

They are not imbeciles they are parasites

They're both! They're imbecilic when it comes to understanding how it is to BE poor

John Bishop once appeared on last leg just after a corporate gig which David Cameron had also attended. This was while Cameron was PM. Bishop said that from talking to him it became clear that he simply hadn't the first clue how life was for ordinary people.

That he was the type of man who'd never wanted for anything his whole life, didn't know what it was like to job hunt, have to look for a home, have to BUDGET! He wouldn't have known how much a loaf of bread or pint of milk was he certainly wouldn't have known what it was like to have to choose between the 2 as you had only enough money for one!

WHY ordinary people vote for these people I will never understand!

They not only aren't you they have no idea whatsoever what your life is like or what you need from them!

MumOfSend exactly - they want the moon on a stick employee wise yet won't pay/provide the conditions for said employee

BeachBreak2411 another who hasn't bothered to properly read the thread

Invariably said by someone who has never claimed UC or worked in hospitality in their life. yep!

If the government wants people in work, they need to put in place simple and easy infection control mitigations. (Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation). Or else there will be an ever growing number of newly disabled Long Covid sufferers.

Also very true

D1n0F0uraus · 28/01/2022 11:16

TV programme, pre Brext, where a person travelled by coach a very long distance across countries to the UK. This person worked in retail. This person earned considerably more in the UK than their home country. Their young child stayed with their grandparents in their home country.This was a good example of someone willing to work.

Versus

People in the UK who don't want to work !

Secondly, I know someone who recruits & they receive lots of applications & organise the interviews. However, people don't always turn up for the interview or don't want the hours. It is very frustrating, because it takes a long time to fill the vacancies.

I have worked in lots of different industries & my current job involves a mixture of days & nights. I have also done zero hours in the past.

The economy is not sustainable with high unemployment

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 28/01/2022 11:30

@D1n0F0uraus

TV programme, pre Brext, where a person travelled by coach a very long distance across countries to the UK. This person worked in retail. This person earned considerably more in the UK than their home country. Their young child stayed with their grandparents in their home country.This was a good example of someone willing to work.

Versus

People in the UK who don't want to work !

Secondly, I know someone who recruits & they receive lots of applications & organise the interviews. However, people don't always turn up for the interview or don't want the hours. It is very frustrating, because it takes a long time to fill the vacancies.

I have worked in lots of different industries & my current job involves a mixture of days & nights. I have also done zero hours in the past.

The economy is not sustainable with high unemployment

The economy is not sustainable with high unemployment Neither is getting our workforce bussed from cheap countries in Europe!
OP posts:
D1n0F0uraus · 28/01/2022 11:43

As a tax payer myself, I want other people to work if possible (not including poor health)
Work is not just about money, but social interaction too

I've walked or cycled to work, when I had no transport

I've worked 3 different jobs at once

Fluffyunicorn1 · 28/01/2022 11:46

I haven't read the full thread but my summary of this was that say you are a qualified nurse but there's no qualified nursing jobs around or there is but you didn't get them. you would then be expected to look for other work. Asda are taking on so you apply and get the job at Asda. You are now working and can still continue to search for a job as a nurse.

its not about saying oh yes you have 3 GCSE's, no other qualifications but here's a job for a surgeon!

its about saying that you need to work to have an income coming in and if you have to get a different job to do so then you should - this doesn't stop you looking for the job you want while your in another job to bridge the unemployment gap

KurtWilde · 28/01/2022 11:50

Graphista unfortunately while the country is being run by people who haven't had a single days struggle in their life, nothing will ever change. They have no idea what problems the general public face on a day to day basis wrt finding work, because we're just numbers, graphs, data. That's it. They see the extremes. They see the massively underprivileged and they see the 1%ers. All of us in between are reduced to statistics.

I quickly realised when I became a single parent that the only job I could do that fits around my kids without it costing me an arm and a leg in childcare or transport costs was self employment. I'm on one of the legacy benefits (tax credits) and dreading the switch to UC as I'm sure they'll have me jumping through hoops in not time.

Their young child stayed with their grandparents in their home country.This was a good example of someone willing to work.

This is a good example of someone who's shifted their parenting responsibilities on to people who've already done their parenting. In no world is that a good example of someone 'willing to work'. You're also assuming that all people have parents who are young enough, able enough, and more importantly willing to take on the parenting of their grandchildren.

Alexandra2001 · 28/01/2022 11:59

@ABCDEF1234

Why should the tax payers pay why you continue to search for the job you want. Take any job and then look for the job you want whilst working. I find it crazy that people were ever allowed to wait for a job they want as opposed to any job that pays some bills.
If you have no skill in say Care (you'll also need a car) or Hospitality, you will not get a job, businesses will not train say a 57 yo to work in an industry they will very likely leave/be unsuitable for.

Older people are competing with far younger people for these sorts of (relatively) low skilled work.

This change is being done to remove people from the unemployment figures/save money, otherwise they would have retraining opportunities, which they do not if you have any equivalent level 3 qualification.

Alexandra2001 · 28/01/2022 12:01

I haven't read the full thread but my summary of this was that say you are a qualified nurse but there's no qualified nursing jobs around or there is but you didn't get them. you would then be expected to look for other work. Asda are taking on so you apply and get the job at Asda. You are now working and can still continue to search for a job as a nurse

Why would ASDA/or anyone else give a nurse/another skilled worker a job, knowing full well they will leave at the first opportunity?

Acidburn · 28/01/2022 12:04

So much outrage, it's hilarious. Do people actually realise that lots of other countries don't even have benefits enough to survive? That if you are disabled / single parent / carer and have legit reasons not to work - you are on your own? It is absolutely tragic, but it is a reality for many. And here you've got thousands of people who think they are entitled to any state help just because they would have to properly rearrange their life in order to facilitate working.
I once lost my high paying job and the next one would only start in 4 months time. So meanwile I had to work 2 minimum wage jobs, one from 7am to 11am, and another from 12am to 10pm. And I have a Masters degree from a prestigious uni. But I had to do it, because I needed money. Meanwhile in the restaurant where I worked - there was a 24 year old girl with a kid, who only worked 16 hours a week so they don't cut her benefits. Her mum was watching the kid everyday, plus her boyfriend lives with her pretty much the whole time, in her lovely 2 bed council flat - but of course she never declared that. So on paper - she was a poor single mum who hardly gets by, but in practice- she had a great secure housing, free childcare, minimum work and money coming into her bank account weekly. Why would she want to work more?

KurtWilde · 28/01/2022 12:08

Why would ASDA/or anyone else give a nurse/another skilled worker a job, knowing full well they will leave at the first opportunity?

They wouldn't. That's why it's so ridiculous.

Changes17 · 28/01/2022 12:09

Is this one of the 'red meat' measures that the far right of the Tory party have been demanding in order to keep Johnson in power?

Seems very short term and just assumes the worst about human nature (that we're all workshy scroungers). If you haven't got the job that's right for you in four weeks you should bin off your experience and training and go and work for the minimum wage? What if you could find a job that was right for you and better paid in six weeks - and then pay more tax? But you might not be looking any more because time taken up in the minimum wage job, harder to get to interviews, etc.

I'd definitely pay more tax for a better welfare system. It would be more reassuring to me that it was there, even though I've been lucky and haven't had to claim so far.

Changes17 · 28/01/2022 12:11

Acidburn I both know that our benefits system is a lot better than in the US (and developing countries) and that it's a lot worse than other European countries. Why get worse when you could improve?

Acidburn · 28/01/2022 12:11

@Changes17 you don't have to settle for the job you don't want in 4 weeks - you can keep looking. Just don't ask for the benefits, thats all.

Acidburn · 28/01/2022 12:14

@Changes17 you mean improve it by giving out more money to people who don't work (for whatever reason)? While taxing the working ones more? Plus - you have a category of people who just don't want to work full stop. And they never will.

Mumofsend · 28/01/2022 12:22

@Acidburn

So much outrage, it's hilarious. Do people actually realise that lots of other countries don't even have benefits enough to survive? That if you are disabled / single parent / carer and have legit reasons not to work - you are on your own? It is absolutely tragic, but it is a reality for many. And here you've got thousands of people who think they are entitled to any state help just because they would have to properly rearrange their life in order to facilitate working. I once lost my high paying job and the next one would only start in 4 months time. So meanwile I had to work 2 minimum wage jobs, one from 7am to 11am, and another from 12am to 10pm. And I have a Masters degree from a prestigious uni. But I had to do it, because I needed money. Meanwhile in the restaurant where I worked - there was a 24 year old girl with a kid, who only worked 16 hours a week so they don't cut her benefits. Her mum was watching the kid everyday, plus her boyfriend lives with her pretty much the whole time, in her lovely 2 bed council flat - but of course she never declared that. So on paper - she was a poor single mum who hardly gets by, but in practice- she had a great secure housing, free childcare, minimum work and money coming into her bank account weekly. Why would she want to work more?
Nowadays neither of those jobs would give you set hours and both would expect full flexibility within the same timescales. If you turn one down you get blacklisted for more shifts. Working multiple jobs was easier when you could juggle different contracted hours.