Shocked by revelations , no contact ever again (TW mentions incest)

[Fridaychangename]

Name changed
I am writing this as I am in complete shock and not write sure who to tell . Need to try and be vague in case I am recognised and also I don't want to get into graphic details .

I am the youngest of my siblings by quite some way . They were teens when I was born . Quite a split family. Our parents have no contact with each other or any of my siblings for various reasons (none related to this) I am the cog in the middle and speak to everyone

Before my teens my brother had a child with his wife so I became an aunt very young. Lots of time spent with the child as our parents provided childcare. Eventually my Brother split from the mother she moved away and we all lost contact with the child... my brother didn't see her after about the age of 11 .

Shes now an adult with her own family and they have re established contact . I haven't seen her since she was a young child. She started following me on social media a while back but thats been it

I have arranged a shirt break with my brother in the summer. He's mentioned his daughter will be coming. No problem.

This is where it all changed

Now a year or so ago he came back to this country (works and lives abroad) and we met up. Went out he stayed with me . I gave him my room as I don't have a spare room or sofa bed. I was in bed next to him (both clothed) and he rolled over and cuddled me and put his hand on my bottom. I moved him away with a jokey what the fuck. Assumed he was half asleep and thought he was next to his partner. I mentioned it to someone and they thought it very strange. I put it to the back of my mind. Had no reason to think it untoward

On this holiday he's told me it's just him and her going and they are sharing a room and will be 'partying' but I was welcome to join. Things in these messages took a sinister turn and hes basically confessed they do this from time to time when their partners aren't around . That what happens on this weekend away stays on it and he began asking why that night when he stayed I didn't start playing with him as he 'expected me to' and asking what I would have done if he had to me as I scrub up well

I am in absolute shock I feel physically sick. I won't be going on this break . I have no plans other than this to see him or her. Neither of them have contact with my children.

I was so close to him growing up, lots of my childhood memories etc. Nothing strange inappropriate at all. I have to go no contact , block every where , delete everywhere. I have already deleted all photos of us off my social media qs it feels tainted and dirty .

Essentially he's dead to me from now and I need to grieve. I just feel stunned.

Sorry I just had to get this out written down somewhere. I posted here as its busy I know I am not being unreasonable . Thanks

You really need to report this. You have a lot of evidence on messages.

Report him for sexual assault and for incest, which is obviously illegal. If you have kept his messages, use that as evidence for the police.

He must have groomed his daughter from her teens into thinking this is acceptable behaviour.

Also what about her mother? have you had a conversation with her? the man is a complete creep.

"Report him for sexual assault and for incest, which is obviously illegal. If you have kept his messages, use that as evidence for the police."

But it isn't illegal in every country, as PP have said, so the OP needs to find out whether incest is illegal in the country she's in.

Good lord. You need a massive gin, and perhaps some brain bleach.

Please report him.

Incest laws that were in place were revoked by napoleon in 1710.

In 1810 possibly. 1710 definitely not.

Lots of gins were had last night . Head hurts today. Yes it is illegal in both contexts where I am and also where they are staying

@Fridaychangename

Lots of gins were had last night . Head hurts today. Yes it is illegal in both contexts where I am and also where they are staying

I’m not surprised.

That’s good that it’s illegal! Amazing that it might not be.

Don’t feel rushed, take your time to gather your thoughts. You must be in such shock.

If you research it ( Sorry I don't remember the name for it ) but it is not unknown that incest can happen between an absent parent and an adult ( note adult ) child after many years of no contact . It's something to do with the blurring of parental love and sexual love.
I looked into it because I have a friend who's husband's sister started up an affair ( said loosely as she was married with kids ) when their father came back on the scene after walking out on them as children.
In the case of your brother , he is probably a sexual predator.

After a couple of drinks last night I unblocked him and messaged him in order to make clear my thoughts and confusion over this.

Hes basically trying to tell me I am as fucked up as him, that I put the idea in his head ????? Baffled at that one! I asked if he ever did anything when I was younger . As I say we were the closest of my siblings and he would take me to the park on days out . All just normal bug brother stuff. He's pissed off and kicking off that I would ask that or that I would accuse him of it. All extremely messed up. He's been re blocked now and that's that .

Making me look at other people differently thinking if I can ever trust someone. I never really knew him. I don't want anyone near my kids just in case . How many other people are walking around thinking or doing things like this.

Feel extreme nausea . Thankyou to everyone for being so sympathetic and gentle

OP you must be completely reeling at this. I read the thread yesterday and I'm glad to hear your updates today if only to know that you're ok.

I think you must report him to the police BUT I also understand that it will be a horribly difficult thing to do, both in terms of your own emotions and in terms of fearing reprisals from him because, as you say, you really don't know him at all. I'd advise you to stop trying to engage with him - it sounds as if that is simply going to make him aggressive and you don't know what he's capable of. Also he's going to gaslight you like crazy.

Now apologies if I'm going to go over things already said, I might have missed some things. Just trying to bring a bit of order to what must feel like total emotional chaos.

So practicalities - I may have missed this, but does he know where you live and does he live nearby or far away?

You have a partner, yes? Have you confided in them or does that feel too difficult this early on?

Can you get some counselling or therapy? This needs such a lot of unpacking (disclosure, I'm a retired psychotherapist).

Take care of yourself, you must be feeling awful. Remember you are guilty of NOTHING at all.

Thankyou everyone

How are you OP? This bombshell will give you aftershocks for a long time and will make you question mug of your contact.

I see his gaslighting has already started.

Are you coping?

*much of your contact

I feel numb. Hes blocked everywhere and that's it for me and him now. I literally feel nothing. Maybe it's the shock. I feel deeply ashamed qnd dirty somehow.

I have decided to tell my parents in the next day or so. I just want another family member to know , not that it will make any difference .

He won't be able to gaslight me as I will never see or speak to him again. I have basically lost my brother almost overnight. If he had died I could grieve , this it's weird. I feel nothing at all

He tried to say we are all fucked up , he thought I felt the same, that I put the idea there when I said I could see why he was popular with all the girls and that I shouldn't have asked so many questions. Like it's my fault. I know it isn't. Even if he had these thoughts about me he should have kept them to himself and never uttered a word. Thank god I didn't just go on this break and find myself in a dreadful situation .

I am not in contact with his ex wife and no idea where she lives what her name is to contact her . I am friends with another ex partner but she's moved on is re married and I don't want to dredge up painful memories for rhe woman . My brother wasn't nice to her , allegations of domestic abuse (he of course denied ) was a rumour he had relations with a 15 year old neighbour in their old village and he was beaten up by the father one night , but this was during a bitter break up and had no idea if it was true. I just assumed it was false allegations to cause trouble. Now I am not so sure . I won't ever really know the truth and maybe it's for the best I don't open Pandoras box

Best of luck and loads of love to you OP. What a shock. Make sure you speak to someone in real life about this - a counsellor, Samaritans, a trusted friend. You’re brave and doing the right thing in reporting this!

Take care of yourself OP.

God you are having to be very brave. Good luck telling your parents. You may find they aren't shocked.

Wanted to come back to get some thoughts out . Today he realised he was blocked and deleted everywhere and began calling me from a different number . There have been calls, wattsapp calls, video calls and texts . All calls ignored . Texts range from pleading to talk to me and offering to reimburse me for the cost of the break away . To saying he's low , depressed and has ruined everything between us. He's then said I was all over him on our night out . I wasn't. I took some selfies and in one I had my arm round his neck in another I was kissing him on the cheek . Had a drink, hadn't seen my big brother in 3 years . I wasn't coming on to him. I linked arms with him to walk down the street, I had heels on. Making me question if I was wrong now. Now he's changed tact again and is throwing mud at me for some things in my past when I was younger (experimenting with recreational drugs )

I have told our parents who are horrified and who said they will fully support me if I go to the police. I wonder with these calls and messages if he's worried what I might do . I am scared. He tried to take his own life 18 years ago. If I report him and they go after him he could do it again. Our relationship is ruined. He's throwing shade on my name. The police and courts will use all that to try and smear me and make me out to be a disgusting person won't they. He knows where I live. I have an awful feeling I could unleash a monster if I do anything down legal channels. I think it could be a risk to big to take but I am finding it hard to put to the back of my mind what else he could be doing or might have done . I feel so unbearably guilty I really do

You've been through a huge shock @Fridaychangename and from what you've said I truly don't believe there's any fault on your part. I wonder would it be worth taking legal advice about what might happen if you spoke to the police? Definitely I think you should look into getting some counselling for you to get your head around what's happening.

Please don't feel guilty or blame yourself. He's an abuser. He is trying to manipulate you.

He tried to commit incest and is trying to blame you! He's disgusting

The burden of guilt isn't yours to carry. He tried to abuse your relationship. He has already abused his own daughter. This is all HIS doing. YOU are the innocent one.

The fact that he is using so many tactics to try and get you back in line - kindness (offering to pay), coercion, blackmail, blame, subtle threats, shows his guilt. He knows he's in the wrong and is panicking. Good. Fucking monster.

I'd be tempted to send one more warning shot email: "Do not contact me or my family ever again." Nothing else. I'd also email your niece, explain your position, and gently suggest that she needs to access counselling as the situation she has found herself in is incredibly, incredibly damaging and wrong on all levels. She must cease contact with her father. I'm unsure of wording but documented and dated emails will also evidence your reaction to this terrible situation, should this man ever try and play awful games in future.

You CANNOT allow yourself to feel any guilt whatsoever. Do not question whatever feelings you previously had for your brother - they were normal feelings - for he will manipulate your guilt to attempt to make you complicit. You are not.

You are in shock undoubtedly and to an extent, you are grieving. Your 'brother' has in essence gone.

Please seek professional help to unpick this turmoil. Maybe some wise MN'ers will be along with suggestions but you mustn't ever doubt your intentions, your thoughts, your memories. You are not in the least bit to blame,

As fucked up as the relationship is between him and his daughter, If he had sex with a 15yo then he’s potentially a risk to others

Not sure what to suggest here, what about contacting the NSPCC for advice, to understand what’s involved in taking this forward, given that you think you may put yourself at risk.

@MzHz

As fucked up as the relationship is between him and his daughter, If he had sex with a 15yo then he’s potentially a risk to others

Not sure what to suggest here, what about contacting the NSPCC for advice, to understand what’s involved in taking this forward, given that you think you may put yourself at risk.

NSPCC will only be able to give general listening type advice not legal procedural advice as none of this - OP and sibling etc - is happening in the UK.

Hope you're ok OP. Remember your own feelings of guilt are entirely normal but unjustified, you've done nothing wrong but we do tend to feel guilt and shame when anything like this touches our lives which is one reason why it's so hard to deal with. Well done for telling your parents that must have been so hard. I'd still advise getting some counselling/therapy in order to fully explore this because it's so huge and complex and things of that nature can be horribly paralysing, talking to a professional can really help untangle it and free you up to see clearly what you need to do. Take care of yourself.

Hadn’t realised wasn’t in uk. Thanks for that :)

But any listening would help in the short term and that’s what I meant for the op while she processed all this