AIBU that in the UK people don't understand 'Shared Space'.

[UndertheCedartree]

In my city we have a few areas of Shared Space. The idea is to reduce vehicle dominance. The pedestrian as just as much right to be in this space and should be accommodated by the traffic. It drives me up the wall when drivers drive too fast in the space and do not stop/slow to allow pedestrians to move about the area. We have an area along a very busy beach area. There are lots of children around and lots of ice cream parlours etc within this area that the children could be going to. You literally have to walk out in front of the cars to get them to let you move across the area. We have another area which is a big square and is shared with buses. The other day my friend and I were walking across it and a bus came up so fast to us that we were frightened.

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well. It just doesn't seem to work here and I think probably the beach area they'll probably pedestrianise as some drivers make it dangerous.

Bloody stupid and obviously dangerous idea. I cannot understand how this could ever be deemed a good or sensible idea.

I'm intrigued to understand how exactly it works well elsewhere.
I just can't see how the needs of massive metal boxes on wheels and vulnerable pedestrians can be accommodated in the same space.
As a driver you can't have eyes everywhere and all vehicles have blind spots.
As a pedestrian you need to know where it is safe to walk and where it isn't - particularly if you are shepherding children or animals or are not able bodied or not NT.

Bloody stupid idea

I've seen this in Gloucester (not where I live). If you've been a pedestrian in the area it's clear how it's supposed to work. If you've only driven through it, though, it's not quite so clear. If you're driving through it for the first time it's not clear at all. I think you're right that the issue is that people are unfamiliar with it in the UK and there aren't clear signs to indicate how the space is supposed to be shared.

That said, getting anything like this to work is difficult when so many people drive too fast.

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

Bloody stupid and obviously dangerous idea. I cannot understand how this could ever be deemed a good or sensible idea.

I'm intrigued to understand how exactly it works well elsewhere.
I just can't see how the needs of massive metal boxes on wheels and vulnerable pedestrians can be accommodated in the same space.
As a driver you can't have eyes everywhere and all vehicles have blind spots.
As a pedestrian you need to know where it is safe to walk and where it isn't - particularly if you are shepherding children or animals or are not able bodied or not NT.

Bloody stupid idea

If for example you lived on a quiet Cul de sac with children playing - you drive in the way you would there. You give way to pedestrians at all times and drive slow enough to be able to. But I think that is why it needs to be the right environment to work.

Haven't been there for a while so it might of changed, but the pavement near Moorfields Eye Hospital was made a shared space with cycles - there was a line painted on the pavement, the idea being cyclists would stay one side pedestrians on the other. Yep, some genius expected all the people with visual impairments going to the hospital to somehow know where this line was (it wasn't even high contrast). In another place a blind man complained about a shared space (with cars) because his dog couldn't guide him was told by the local council to just avoid it. Really don't get the point of them - make proper segregation between pedestrians and other transport add plenty of crossings and pinch points, cameras etc if you want to slow traffic.

[quote UndertheCedartree]@EmmaH2022 - our council uses bus stops and billboards as well as leaflets through doors. Never had anything about Shared Space.[/quote]
For a lot of city dwellers, that just isn't noticeable IYSWIM.

It's part of a street scene that has no impact on the brain.

I cannot believe that about the area near the eye hospital!

We have a bit of it in the town centre

What actually happens is you drive down the main road at a crawl because people just walk out in front of you. You go to turn left into a side street and there is a constant flow of pedestrians so you can't make the turn, which blocks up all the cars behind you. The minute you go to move to turn, another pedestrian appears and it starts again. I mean you could be there all bloody day and not able to move!

I should add previously the turn (and the rest of the town) had useful things like you know, traffic lights and pedestrian crossings
Now it's just paving with no distinction really between pavement/road and no traffic control
Excellent...
If only there were things to allow the flow of traffic and pedestrians to cross safely...

@NotSoLittle

Haven't been there for a while so it might of changed, but the pavement near Moorfields Eye Hospital was made a shared space with cycles - there was a line painted on the pavement, the idea being cyclists would stay one side pedestrians on the other. Yep, some genius expected all the people with visual impairments going to the hospital to somehow know where this line was (it wasn't even high contrast). In another place a blind man complained about a shared space (with cars) because his dog couldn't guide him was told by the local council to just avoid it. Really don't get the point of them - make proper segregation between pedestrians and other transport add plenty of crossings and pinch points, cameras etc if you want to slow traffic.

could the line not be tactile or something not even a hard problem to solve they just... didn't... bother...

@MaybeHeIsMyCat

We have a bit of it in the town centre

What actually happens is you drive down the main road at a crawl because people just walk out in front of you. You go to turn left into a side street and there is a constant flow of pedestrians so you can't make the turn, which blocks up all the cars behind you. The minute you go to move to turn, another pedestrian appears and it starts again. I mean you could be there all bloody day and not able to move!

Exactly! Yes, drivers can be idiots, drive really fast, and ignore pedestrians... etc... but at the end of the day while pedestrians are more vulnerable blocking traffic is the other extreme.

Furthermore... idling engines have a worse environmental impact.
IF there was a better way e.g. public transport people would have used it.

All this chaos makes is longer journey times + more CO2. Great

I've never heard of a shared space. Sounds dangerous.
Whats wrong with a path and a road? Everybody knows where they are supposed to be, it's safer for people with disabilities (eg visually impaired) to know when they are coming to a crossing and when its safe to go.

There are precious few drivers who drive carefully on cul de sacs where children are playing.

I think they are ridiculous. Incredibly dangerous and unsafe for many people including the aforementioned Guide Dog users, also deaf people and so on. Pavement. Road. Crossing places. Invented for a reason.

Can believe that in some other countries/cultures they will work better than in, say, London. But some of those problems must still exist. I doubt a Dutch Guide Dog can be trained to understand them? Or can they? Intrigued.

Should just pedestrianize outright, with exceptions for blue badges and deliveries.

I agree. Look how outraged people were on here over the changes to the Highway Code.

I don't think it was all outrage. A lot of it was puzzlement - like how the hell does a pedestrian trust that? How does that make pedestraians any safer on a corner? It just makes it more cut and dried should anyne end up in court - when it's too late for the pedestrian!

It isn't just unsafe, as a pedestrian it must be like permanently walking round a car park, when I am walking in town I don't want to be permanently on guard for cars moving around the space, it's bad enough trying to dodge the cyclists etc. And then driving round it will always be tense, which kids are going to escape their parents and run across etc, no one wants to hurt anyone.

Especially in a vehicle (including cyclists etc) all the people in a space need to be working to the same rules, which direction you are going in, right of way etc. Pedestrians just do not work like that, we are able to move fluidly, can stop wherever, have no requirements on how we move or speed, direction etc

@maddening

It isn't just unsafe, as a pedestrian it must be like permanently walking round a car park, when I am walking in town I don't want to be permanently on guard for cars moving around the space, it's bad enough trying to dodge the cyclists etc. And then driving round it will always be tense, which kids are going to escape their parents and run across etc, no one wants to hurt anyone.

Especially in a vehicle (including cyclists etc) all the people in a space need to be working to the same rules, which direction you are going in, right of way etc. Pedestrians just do not work like that, we are able to move fluidly, can stop wherever, have no requirements on how we move or speed, direction etc

Exactly as a pedestrian I want a designated space where I can walk without cars, don’t want to navigate.

However..there are also people who CBA walk to pedestrian lights/crossings and run across the road.

The road in front of my house is notorious. 30mph, bus stop/row of shops on one side and train station on the other. Loads of people running across. There are pedestrian lights but you have to walk down the road cross then all the way back up.

The road is wide so many people drive at the limits, it’s also a bill .I always drive more careful because there’s always people running across.

If a pedestrian runs across the road whose fault is it, if a car wasn’t ‘speeding’?

If not for the traffic at peak times meaning it slows to a crawl there’d probably be a lot of road deaths there…