AIBU that in the UK people don't understand 'Shared Space'.

[UndertheCedartree]

In my city we have a few areas of Shared Space. The idea is to reduce vehicle dominance. The pedestrian as just as much right to be in this space and should be accommodated by the traffic. It drives me up the wall when drivers drive too fast in the space and do not stop/slow to allow pedestrians to move about the area. We have an area along a very busy beach area. There are lots of children around and lots of ice cream parlours etc within this area that the children could be going to. You literally have to walk out in front of the cars to get them to let you move across the area. We have another area which is a big square and is shared with buses. The other day my friend and I were walking across it and a bus came up so fast to us that we were frightened.

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well. It just doesn't seem to work here and I think probably the beach area they'll probably pedestrianise as some drivers make it dangerous.

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

I don't think I can see any benefit in it over pavements and roads except it may look nicer when no one's there.

The theory is nice, the reality doesn't work.

I think I live in your town! If so the bit outside Nando's is downright lethal, the drivers really don't seem to have a clue. Tempted to get run over just to be able to sue them! (Joke)(sort of)

In the Netherlands generally cyclists have priority over everything (except trams, nobody has priority over trams!). Everyone starts on a cycle. So car drivers will tend to be cycle aware plus cyclists are terrifying and an omafiets (traditional Dutch bike) doesn't have brakes.

It's a huge problem in a city near me you just get cars ignoring the pedestrians and beeping etc. Terrifying.

I can’t think of any benefits to this. If they want to reduce traffic then make it pedestrian only don’t blur the boundaries

I don't like the concept. I think that when you've got space shared by a range of different types of motion travelling at different speeds, it's just inviting collisions really. Bikes, scooters and pedestrians can all injure each other, and cars/vans/buses can injure cyclists and pedestrians.

I also feel like it's a rather ableist concept. If you use a mobility dog, walking aids or a wheelchair, shared space isn't very user-friendly at all.

I'm all for more cycling routes, better pedestrianisation and more accessible cities and towns. I don't think shared space routes are the way to go about it.

I've never heard of this. Sounds like an inherently dangerous idea to me. I'm all for reducing car dominance by having more pedestrian areas, improving public transport and improving cycle lanes, having public payg bikes etc. But this shared area thing sounds terrifying unlessyou make it very hard for cars to navigate, in which case what's the point?

I like shared space, if it means that cars can crawl through areas that they otherwise wouldn't be in. It's very practical, and avoids routing traffic away on long diversions to protect pedestrian areas.

It only works if the driver thinks like a pedestrian rather than like a driver. It's a different mindset, like electric buggies at the airport or theme park. It seems not everyone can do it- they sit in the car and automatically 'drive' in the usual way.

Ditto pedestrians see a car and move out of the way, which reinforces the problem.

I think I'll give these a miss, sounds scary and confusing.

We had some shared space which was just confusing and has gone now, but sadly only after a toddler was knocked down and killed as the parents thought the area was pedestrianised, he was dashing about, car came round the corner and hit him. Just horrible.

It’s an everyday concept in the Netherlands, you can’t just plonk it down in the U.K. and expect people to understand it.

Even if a car is going slowly they wouldn't see a short toddler darting in front of them.

It works well in many countries but the British just don't cope with it. Like merge in turn roundabouts. A surprising amount of road design is dicated but the culture of the country and how good they are at sharing, queueing etc.

@Missingthesea

We now have shared space in our local high street. My SIL can no longer walk there safely with his guide dog, as there's no pavement and of course guide dogs think it's ALL pavement!

Yes, it has really not been though through for many disabled people.

I don't remotely buy the idea that the British 'can't do it'. That's some ridiculous stereotyping. It takes time to get used to such things. Most car drivers (whatever their nationality ) are used to driving cars on roads,not weaving in and out of pedestrians and road furniture. Personally I don't think spending a few years knocking toddlers over while people get used to it is worth it.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I think it sounds terrifying too.

Probably better and safer to just pedestrianise it, perhaps with a clearly marked exception for blue badge holders - but as the exception they’d be very careful, knowing it was predominantly pedestrian.

Yes, that sounds a good plan.

Can't cope? Don't be so patronising.

The problem with them is multitudinal. No public education, no local information, no on site signage or explanation.

If the government or any local council bothered to spend on a public information film then maybe we'd know what to do, as driver, cyclist or pedestrian. But if you look, and can actually find DoT information on it you'll find a wishy washy time about shared responsibility, common goals, community, changing landscape, etc.

Here, less than half a mile from our shared space, is an area that would greatly benefit from one, would actually be understandable by all users. But it is in a residential area, between green space and schools, not quite as sexy as just outside the historic dockyard.

We'd 'cope' just fine if they were explained, well signed and appropriately sited.

There's some shared space in the newly built estate near our home. You can tell because the "pavement" is less than 1 foot wide (impossible to use for buggies or wheelchairs), and the "road" is paved with red bricks.
Thankfully very little traffic on it, as it's a quiet residential area, and there's proper roads to move around (the shared space is more like side roads between the main roads), so it's mostly used for access by very local residents, but still doesn't look safe at all.

And from what I've read before, they're an accessibility nightmare for people with visual impairments. The way you're supposed to share entirely relies on the ability of pedestrians and drivers to see each others, make eye contact, gesture at each other...

Developers love them because they can cram more houses on the same land by removing pavements...

@Just10moreminutesplease

I’ve never heard of this. Does it mean there are no pavements at all?

Well, the whole area is bricked so it doesn't look like a road. Really cars should see it as 'all pavement' and drive carefully and give way to pedestrians but they just act like it's a road.

Hmm - Wikipedia seems to suggest there are benefits to accident rates and vehicle speeds (in the UK trials just as much as elsewhere - which suggests the British are no less capable than anyone else of adapting). But organisations supporting wheelchair users and deaf, blind ir partially-sighted people seem very against shared space : here

@CuriousaboutSamphire

In ours it's just a vast expanse of pink road, some pavements and two crossings, pelican and zebra.

Nothing else, no street furniture, no white lines, etc. It makes no sense at all.

If it was truly Shared Space it shouldn't need crossings. I have seen that before elsewhere.It is just confusing - why would drivers give way to pedestrians over the whole space if there are crossings?!

If I told you I live outside Gloucester you might understand 😆

Other local posters will be able to confirm, the council here is totally bobbins on many, many issues!

@iCouldSleepForAYear

But Aberdonian Audi drivers aside (), when I learned to drive in the UK, I was instructed to approach turns at a cross/intersection in second gear, roundabouts in second gear, and to ignore pedestrians standing on a street corner waiting to cross, lest I be marked down on my driving test. It's a whole culture of "the roads are for cars". You can't undo that without a lot of public re-education.

Completely agree. It takes a different mindset.

I think they are a shit idea personally.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

If there are to be shared spaces in the UK, there needs to be consistency of design, along with intelligent analysis & planning, enough accurate signage & lots of information put out to the general public.

In my experience, there isn't.

One example: a perfectly normal roundabout was replaced with a flat beige-on-beige circle. Vehicles still go round it, but can pedestrians also stroll across it at will? Could a driver legally go the wrong way round, or straight across? Who gives way to whom? Is it still a roundabout in the eyes of the DfT/Highway Code? Nobody knows. In practice, it functions exactly as before, so what was the point?

Completely agree.

I've never heard of this either but agree it sounds terrifying and dangerous. Why not just make the area for pedestrians?
Does it work better in the Netherlands because less people drive, maybe?