AIBU that in the UK people don't understand 'Shared Space'.

[UndertheCedartree]

In my city we have a few areas of Shared Space. The idea is to reduce vehicle dominance. The pedestrian as just as much right to be in this space and should be accommodated by the traffic. It drives me up the wall when drivers drive too fast in the space and do not stop/slow to allow pedestrians to move about the area. We have an area along a very busy beach area. There are lots of children around and lots of ice cream parlours etc within this area that the children could be going to. You literally have to walk out in front of the cars to get them to let you move across the area. We have another area which is a big square and is shared with buses. The other day my friend and I were walking across it and a bus came up so fast to us that we were frightened.

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well. It just doesn't seem to work here and I think probably the beach area they'll probably pedestrianise as some drivers make it dangerous.

I've never heard of them.
I'm not sure what's going on with uk roads atm but between shared spaces not being explained and the new road hierarchy not being well publicised I'm beginning to think theres some sort of conspiracy going on.

I found in Amsterdam all the cars were electric so you would hear them come up behind you while you were walking. Not once did we get beeped at when we realized we simply moved aside to let the car past and both did the "thank you" hand wave.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

If I told you I live outside Gloucester you might understand 😆

Other local posters will be able to confirm, the council here is totally bobbins on many, many issues!

I live in Gloucester!

And I hate that space with a passion - both as a driver and a pedestrian.
My 15 year old son also hates it - he feels obliged to run across.

I don't understand how it works at all - it looks like a zebra crossing, but it's not.
Then there's a stupid rainbow crossing a few yards down.
Bonkers.

Works in the Netherlands, and probably most European countries, as the citizens have more communal responsibility. In Britain it’s all me, me, me and my car is VERY IMPORTANT. Selfishness reigns.

We are too competitive in UK. Cars, motorbikes, bicycles, now scooters and even pedestrians will walk out and challenge vehicles on any road.
Cyclists in German or Netherlands towns don't wear Lycra and are forever checking their App to see if they are gaining or losing a few seconds at way-points on their commute. They wear ordinary clothes and cycle just fast enough not to get sweaty. We are competitive/aggressive. It why we win so many things. It is ingrained in us.

YANBU.
Also the Netherlands is designed around not needing a car, yes people bike everywhere but everything’s concentrated and it’s flat.

It’s not just about culture, or a single street but how wider facilities are designed

@pigsDOfly

Never heard of this either.

Why, if this is being introduced here, hasn't there been more information about on tv and in the press.

We have shared spaces where I live that involve pedestrians and cyclists.

The paths are quite narrow as it's the route of what was once a single track railway line. I used to walk my dog - always on her lead - along part of it but I gave up using it because so many of the cyclists would fly along with complete disregard for the walkers, coming up behind you without any warning and expecting you to leap out of their way despite the large signs telling cyclist to give way to pedestrians.

Frankly using it can be really stressful and scary.

Can't imagine what it's like in a similar situation but with cars; pretty terrifying I would think.

Generally, it's fine. The vehicles are mostly moving slowly. But they just don't stop to let people move across the space (I'm sure many don't realise they are meant to) and occasionally you get the idiots going too fast and acting like you shouldn't be crossing 'their' road.

Also @pigsDOfly completely agree r.e cyclists flying past.
People like to treat cars as the enemy but in actual fact cars IMO in an area with designated crossing are a lot safer than shared spaces with cyclists.

I’d rather cross a huge 4 way crossroad, with lots of pedestrian lights, than walk on the narrow towpath on my local canal with cyclists constantly zooming up behind me, knocking me into hedges and or god forbid the canal itself!

The underlying principle of traffic signs is always, always be clear, never make people guess, but that’s been abandoned in this ‘eco friendly’ rush. All sorts of strange new road types popping up and no clue on how to use them.

@MargaretThursday

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

I don't think I can see any benefit in it over pavements and roads except it may look nicer when no one's there.

The theory is nice, the reality doesn't work.

I see the point of it. It is kind of like the stage before pedestrianising. So vehicles shouldn't dominate the area and people should be able to use the whole space safely with children etc. It can work very well (in other countries) but many people just don't have the mindset of putting pedestrians above cars here.

@whywouldntyou

I think I live in your town! If so the bit outside Nando's is downright lethal, the drivers really don't seem to have a clue. Tempted to get run over just to be able to sue them! (Joke)(sort of)

Is that the new bit they've been working on forever?

but many people just don't have the mindset of putting pedestrians above cars here.

Well it's pretty hard to have the mindset of something in a country where most people have never heard of it or seen it!

@NightmareSlashDelightful

I don't like the concept. I think that when you've got space shared by a range of different types of motion travelling at different speeds, it's just inviting collisions really. Bikes, scooters and pedestrians can all injure each other, and cars/vans/buses can injure cyclists and pedestrians.

I also feel like it's a rather ableist concept. If you use a mobility dog, walking aids or a wheelchair, shared space isn't very user-friendly at all.

I'm all for more cycling routes, better pedestrianisation and more accessible cities and towns. I don't think shared space routes are the way to go about it.

Yes, that is a big problem. It makes things very difficult for many disabled people.

What also annoys me is all these Shared Spaces won awards before they'd been put to the test! Yes, the theory is good but in practice not so much.

@crazyjinglist

I've never heard of this. Sounds like an inherently dangerous idea to me. I'm all for reducing car dominance by having more pedestrian areas, improving public transport and improving cycle lanes, having public payg bikes etc. But this shared area thing sounds terrifying unlessyou make it very hard for cars to navigate, in which case what's the point?

In general no it's not terrifying. The cars are for the most part travelling slowly. I suppose the point of having the road open is for people to access the many attractions at the beach. The bus one is to allow buses to skip the main traffic.

"Shared Space" is a concept that has never been properly explained to the public. As a result, I think that YANBU and, until such time as there is a national, as opposed to local, publicity campaign to explain what they are about, they are damn dangerous and should done away with. I have never encountered one when driving and have no idea of what I should be doing if and when I do.

@Theluggage15

We had some shared space which was just confusing and has gone now, but sadly only after a toddler was knocked down and killed as the parents thought the area was pedestrianised, he was dashing about, car came round the corner and hit him. Just horrible.

It’s an everyday concept in the Netherlands, you can’t just plonk it down in the U.K. and expect people to understand it.

Oh gosh, how awful. And yes, I feel this exactly what has happened - it has just been plonked down without real thought to helping people learn about this new concept.

@crazyjinglist

but many people just don't have the mindset of putting pedestrians above cars here.

Well it's pretty hard to have the mindset of something in a country where most people have never heard of it or seen it!

This x 1000.

@WhatNoRaisins

Even if a car is going slowly they wouldn't see a short toddler darting in front of them.

It's not like a road with cars parked - it is a completely flat area. People should be driving carefully like you would in a car park where you know a child could run out any moment.

@crazyjinglist

but many people just don't have the mindset of putting pedestrians above cars here.

Well it's pretty hard to have the mindset of something in a country where most people have never heard of it or seen it!

I don’t know if I’m just lucky, but cars in my area are very polite. They don’t zoom past pedestrian crossings, stop at junctions to allow pedestrians to cross etc.

The main bad behaviour is from cyclists

@crazyjinglist

I don't remotely buy the idea that the British 'can't do it'. That's some ridiculous stereotyping. It takes time to get used to such things. Most car drivers (whatever their nationality ) are used to driving cars on roads,not weaving in and out of pedestrians and road furniture. Personally I don't think spending a few years knocking toddlers over while people get used to it is worth it.

Agree.

Pp have mentioned a new hierarchy, which I'm only vaguely aware of because of MN, but I cross at crossings anyway. Hopefully it doesn't mean more pedestrians being mown down by cyclists? Scooters are a real menace in London too.

Clear road markings and uses seem like a benefit for all. Big changes should have big awareness campaigns.

I think it's just government officials giving taxes to their cronies. There's a bit in my part of town that's about 5 shop fronts wide. It got a £3million grant so it was re-concreted and had benches put on it. Now people sit on the benches and feed pigeons who poop everywhere.

Also to add we have a lot of cycle lanes the majority of drivers will also have been cyclists/pedestrians at some point…

Let's make a safe space for pedestrians to move about in.

Now let's add cars. Brilliant.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Can't cope? Don't be so patronising.

The problem with them is multitudinal. No public education, no local information, no on site signage or explanation.

If the government or any local council bothered to spend on a public information film then maybe we'd know what to do, as driver, cyclist or pedestrian. But if you look, and can actually find DoT information on it you'll find a wishy washy time about shared responsibility, common goals, community, changing landscape, etc.

Here, less than half a mile from our shared space, is an area that would greatly benefit from one, would actually be understandable by all users. But it is in a residential area, between green space and schools, not quite as sexy as just outside the historic dockyard.

We'd 'cope' just fine if they were explained, well signed and appropriately sited.

Yes, definitely.

@DerAlteMann

"Shared Space" is a concept that has never been properly explained to the public. As a result, I think that YANBU and, until such time as there is a national, as opposed to local, publicity campaign to explain what they are about, they are damn dangerous and should done away with. I have never encountered one when driving and have no idea of what I should be doing if and when I do.

Also, how do local publicity things work now? I don't get a local paper. I'm on the council list for developments but many people won't be. The local library is now open for collection only.

I think there might be a shared place in the works a couple of roads away but I won't know until I walk into it. Argh.

And much worse for drivers.

@EmmaH2022 I guess ‘local’ means putting leaflets through people’s doors, or signs in local shops.

There are loads of other things that could be done though, a scannable QR code / memorable link people can visit to find information.

@Rosebel

I've never heard of this either but agree it sounds terrifying and dangerous. Why not just make the area for pedestrians? Does it work better in the Netherlands because less people drive, maybe?

I think it is for lots of reasons. Firstly, people understand how they work, secondly cars aren't as dominant anyway and thirdly they put them in the right places.

This sounds like a pain in the arse for everyone involved. Just make the areas pedestrian only.