AIBU that in the UK people don't understand 'Shared Space'.

[UndertheCedartree]

In my city we have a few areas of Shared Space. The idea is to reduce vehicle dominance. The pedestrian as just as much right to be in this space and should be accommodated by the traffic. It drives me up the wall when drivers drive too fast in the space and do not stop/slow to allow pedestrians to move about the area. We have an area along a very busy beach area. There are lots of children around and lots of ice cream parlours etc within this area that the children could be going to. You literally have to walk out in front of the cars to get them to let you move across the area. We have another area which is a big square and is shared with buses. The other day my friend and I were walking across it and a bus came up so fast to us that we were frightened.

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well. It just doesn't seem to work here and I think probably the beach area they'll probably pedestrianise as some drivers make it dangerous.

@sanbeiji

YANBU. Also the Netherlands is designed around not needing a car, yes people bike everywhere but everything’s concentrated and it’s flat.

It’s not just about culture, or a single street but how wider facilities are designed

Yes, good point.

I suspect it's a bit like when they plonked the first roundabout in one of Kentucky's counties recently. Everyone was going around it the wrong way, didn't know where to go or what to do. To us it's hilarious as roundabouts are an everyday thing but as no one knew what they were doing because no one had told them what to do at the roundabout it was absolute chaos! You really can't just take road concepts that are well established in other places and dump them somewhere with no education of the population. I'm fairly sure people in Kentucky can use roundabouts just as people in the UK can use shared space. Someone might need to explain the concept first though! I did think however that pedestrians have always had right of way (even when I did my theory test). I'm fairly sure you've never been able to just run people over for fun?

[quote sanbeiji]@EmmaH2022 I guess ‘local’ means putting leaflets through people’s doors, or signs in local shops.

There are loads of other things that could be done though, a scannable QR code / memorable link people can visit to find information.[/quote]
Yes, I'd look a leaflet.

A QR code, I wouldn't even notice. Local shops - a lot of commuters don't use them and again, I'd not notice anything in a shop.

With something as drastic as shared spaces, where toddlers have died, I think at the minimum there should be one design, advertising campaigns as well as leaflets, and everyone on the council list notified.

That said, I'd prefer pedestrian only areas. Much safer and I think more disability friendly.

There is one near us that I think works quite well. Possibly because it was previously a road with very slow moving traffic (lined with shops and cafes etc, leading up to some traffic lights) and so people aren't used to driving quickly on it. I suppose it also helps that it isn't a through route to anywhere important so it's mostly locals that use it so we know how it works. I use it in a car and on foot and it seems to be fine. Perhaps the circumstances need to be right for it to work safely.

@DerAlteMann

"Shared Space" is a concept that has never been properly explained to the public. As a result, I think that YANBU and, until such time as there is a national, as opposed to local, publicity campaign to explain what they are about, they are damn dangerous and should done away with. I have never encountered one when driving and have no idea of what I should be doing if and when I do.

There wasn't even been a local publicity campaign when they came in. But yes, good point - it should be national. We have a lot of visitors here, especially at the beach - it's no wonder many don't have any idea how to use the Shared Space.

@EmmaH2022 - our council uses bus stops and billboards as well as leaflets through doors. Never had anything about Shared Space.

@sanbeiji - I find most motorists polite around here too. But the point of Shared Space is there are no crossings.

@FlatCheese

Let's make a safe space for pedestrians to move about in.

Now let's add cars. Brilliant.

Yeah, doesn't sound great when you put it like that!

@Deliaskis

There is one near us that I think works quite well. Possibly because it was previously a road with very slow moving traffic (lined with shops and cafes etc, leading up to some traffic lights) and so people aren't used to driving quickly on it. I suppose it also helps that it isn't a through route to anywhere important so it's mostly locals that use it so we know how it works. I use it in a car and on foot and it seems to be fine. Perhaps the circumstances need to be right for it to work safely.

Thing is - what’s wrong with putting zebra crossings, or pedestrian lights? Why does an area have to be ‘shared’ e.g have people go wherever they like? In OP’s example are there no crossings?

The reason isn’t to give way to cars but that it’s easier for everyone to know what to do and where to stop.

There are a couple of areas near me that I guess aren’t an ‘official’ shared space but similar to you has shops, school buses with kids crossing everywhere so people are quite careful around 3 p.m even if the road is wide. Fair enough.

But others..busy road with people randomly crossing, it’s a wide stretch and suddenly there’s a row of shops on either side. Bit unexpected.

In the OP’s examples U.K. wondering why aren’t there are other crossings, is weaving in and out of cars the only option ?

The best would be if we could make all the shops etc in one place, and ban cars from there (except for the disabled). Then people can use cars for the necessary part of the journey, but not needed in high foot traffic areas.

*sorru eealised I repeated my point but am on second glass of wine already… you know what I mean tho…

@SickAndTiredAgain

This sounds like a pain in the arse for everyone involved. Just make the areas pedestrian only.

To be honest I've thought for years they should pedestrianise the central beach area. I suppose this is a compromise but we've had it for many years now and I think someone needs to admit it doesn't work!

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well.

I'd disagree with that, especially in Amsterdam. There are cyclists everywhere who don't give a toss about pedestrians. I got taken out by a very fast cyclist (who didn't stop) and I ended up having to get stitches in my leg and arm.

Cyclists behaviour towards pedestrians in Amsterdam is just like motorists behaviour in the UK - they ain't going to stop and it's up to you to get out of their way.

@Momicrone

Drivers are a very entitled lot, it takes time to change behaviours

I agree. Look how outraged people were on here over the changes to the Highway Code.

@user1497207191

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well.

I'd disagree with that, especially in Amsterdam. There are cyclists everywhere who don't give a toss about pedestrians. I got taken out by a very fast cyclist (who didn't stop) and I ended up having to get stitches in my leg and arm.

Cyclists behaviour towards pedestrians in Amsterdam is just like motorists behaviour in the UK - they ain't going to stop and it's up to you to get out of their way.

There are a LOT of cycling accidents in the Netherlands. However because they’re usually not serious enough to be reported they aren’t counted.

I remember being yelled at and almost knocked down multiple times as a tourist, that , unfriendly locals and charging for packets of sauce is why Am’s my least favourite city.

Thé Zuid-Kennemerland National Park though that’s a piece of heaven, lovely place and welcoming folk
** sorry to digress

@sanbeiji

The best would be if we could make all the shops etc in one place, and ban cars from there (except for the disabled). Then people can use cars for the necessary part of the journey, but not needed in high foot traffic areas.

I've often thought there's merit in that kind of idea. Especially now that so many shops have closed down, both in town centres and precincts etc, they're just too spread out with either vacant/empty shops inbetween or conversions into residential, breaking up the retail areas.

I do think council's should explore the possibilities of concentrating retail into smaller areas (by incentives or compulsory purchase if necessary), and re-purpose the surrounding areas into retail, leisure, etc.

I meant housing and leisure, of course, not retail and leisure!

@FruitToast

I suspect it's a bit like when they plonked the first roundabout in one of Kentucky's counties recently. Everyone was going around it the wrong way, didn't know where to go or what to do. To us it's hilarious as roundabouts are an everyday thing but as no one knew what they were doing because no one had told them what to do at the roundabout it was absolute chaos! You really can't just take road concepts that are well established in other places and dump them somewhere with no education of the population. I'm fairly sure people in Kentucky can use roundabouts just as people in the UK can use shared space. Someone might need to explain the concept first though! I did think however that pedestrians have always had right of way (even when I did my theory test). I'm fairly sure you've never been able to just run people over for fun?

Well no you can't just run people over if they are on the road but neither do cars allow pedestrians on the pavement to cross - the pedestrian has to wait for a gap in the cars. With Shared Space there is no separate pavement. It is basically a pedestrianised area with cars allowed down the middle. They should be giving way at all times to pedestrians as if they were already on the road if you see what I mean. The trouble is this area is very busy with lots of pedestrians and lots of cars. There are very few gaps in the cars and lots of people wanting to move over the space. The other area works better as it is quieter and only shared with pedestrians and buses.

@Deliaskis

There is one near us that I think works quite well. Possibly because it was previously a road with very slow moving traffic (lined with shops and cafes etc, leading up to some traffic lights) and so people aren't used to driving quickly on it. I suppose it also helps that it isn't a through route to anywhere important so it's mostly locals that use it so we know how it works. I use it in a car and on foot and it seems to be fine. Perhaps the circumstances need to be right for it to work safely.

Absolutely - I think they can work but it needs to be thought about very carefully as to whether it is the right location.

@sanbeiji - it is only single lane so no weaving in and out. There are no crossings, the cars are just meant to give way to pedestrians. But as I say it is a very busy area for traffic and pedestrians - it would be much safer to pedestrianise as you say.

@user1497207191

I've seen Shared Space in the Netherlands and it works really well.

I'd disagree with that, especially in Amsterdam. There are cyclists everywhere who don't give a toss about pedestrians. I got taken out by a very fast cyclist (who didn't stop) and I ended up having to get stitches in my leg and arm.

Cyclists behaviour towards pedestrians in Amsterdam is just like motorists behaviour in the UK - they ain't going to stop and it's up to you to get out of their way.

I was referring more to residential areas rather than Amsterdam.

drivers in the uk are selfish, shared spaces will never work, I think it goes way deeper then driving a car, we are not taught to be socialist and community minded in the UK, we are taught to be selfish and entitled, it goes back to the days of thatcher.

It sounds really dangerous, and imo children should not get used to being able to walk safely among cars. A car doesn't have to be going very fast to cause serious damage to a small child.

I have had the experience of explaining American 4-way stops to British drivers who were incredulous that drivers would really allow the first car to the intersection to proceed, and take orderly turns going on their way. It was strange how they were sure it couldn't possibly work, given the famous British queueing.

Is this like the one that double decker crashed in? What do the guide dogs think?

Can you tell I'm not a fan..

Shared Space is an expensive hybrid idea that would work poorly in practice, especially in nearly all of the United States. The answer is to completely pedestrian/considerate bike the space, or maintain wide pavements with proper crossings for walkers, wheelchair users, and children.

They did a shared space revamp to frideswide square in Oxford it is the most stupid space and dangerous for able bodied people to cross let alone those with disabilities. I particularly hate that if you are in the middle of the road it's flat so no protection if a vehicle misjudges the space.

BBC News - Campaigner for blind 'mortified' at road junction award
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-37560744

Problem is councils take roads that have always been roads and change them to these shared spaces but effectively they are still roads. I also actually don't like that there's no raised kerb on them as kerbs do offer a little protection from a car if a driver misjudges and can slow a car down.